Page 33 | Another path to greatness - part III

bendmeoverbackwards · 26/04/2021 22:47

@goodbyestranger

Oh my goodness the boob bit is eight or so minutes in. It really is not an issue. Come on quest1on!

The relevance to ingrained City behaviour in the eighties/ ninetiew is that heaps of fathers of sons at top unis will almost certainly have been those men in the City in the eighties/ nineties who thought nothing of inappropriate comments or actions on a daily basis in the working life. So.... point the finger at them first perhaps?

@goodbyestranger I am frankly amazed by your comments and the minimising of inappropriate behaviour.

Times have moved on - no one would tolerate racism now, we should not accept ANY sexism or misogyny. It needs calling out Every Single Time.

‘Just boys/students having fun’ is the pathetic excuse for why girls and young women have unwanted sexual attention and being groped and upskirted.

It’s got to stop.

bendmeoverbackwards · 26/04/2021 22:50

@goodbyestranger

I know you're not being serious jano69 but honestly, I've just spent my supper cooking time with these St John's you tube videos on on the table in front of me and I dare you 40/50/60 somethings to say that if you looked back at yourself as a nineteen year old, you did nothing that wasn't cringy to your older self. Young people should be allowed to have a bit of fun without this stentorian censure. Lighten up people! Silly yes, cringy yes - but they're only kids having fun.

Only kids having fun?? Try saying that to the poor girl who had her breasts filmed and probably plastered across the internet.

bendmeoverbackwards · 26/04/2021 22:52

@goodbyestranger

LoonvanBoon I'll go back and watch it to examine Boobgate forensically. I'm prepared to bet the girl was fully consenting and that we have a case of over solicitous matronly censure here.

When I was in the City in the Eighties I contended daily with words and actions which today be censured in that way. The perpetrators are now the fathers and grandfathers of these young aspirational men at Durham and other top unis, so it might be worth giving pause for thought since plenty of women on MN will be of the generation where their husbands will have been as louche as could be, in their high flying City jobs two or three decades ago.

Let’s hope they’re prosecuted if they’re still alive.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 22:58

Loon you're conflating 'folly of' youth (my take - although I wouldn't use the term folly) and male entitlement (quest1on, in her own words). It seemed to me that quest1on was super quick to rush into censure something which was pretty obviously simply puerile (certainly to adult eyes and ears), but which the video makers all appeared to have fun making. It was harmless fun, if silly. I checked back to see the boob bit and it's obvious that the whole thing had been agreed, and is miles away from male entitlement. You made that distinction yourself, above, so I'm not clear why you now fail to. The critical thing that young women need to be in possession of is a genuine ability to consent. If that means consenting to taking part in a video like this, and visibly enjoying it - not for older people to tell her it's wrong.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:02

Oh for goodness sake bend. Prosecuted for inappropriate comments and actions which were fended off perfectly easily? No crime was committed and I don't think any workplace policy at that time would have addressed the issue. I don't think I ever read the policies, but I'd bet a few bob that sexual harassment wasn't included as a thing.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:11

You've watched the video before posting those comments have you bend? There's something to be said for not massively over-reacting.

(Apologies, I tend to read back in no particular order).

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:12

This Open Day video was hardly revenge porn.

quest1on · 26/04/2021 23:13

You’re not missing much Loonvan, don’t worry.

Sorry I was just trying not to be an uptight 48 year-old matron with DC3 who is having a drama.

It’s not about being offended or even giving a hoot, goodbye. Students at different unis make various videos and, although you obviously take it all with a very large pinch of salt, you can’t help wondering how far what you see on YouTube characterises a uni, or whether its the exception. That’s all. So what do the students say about the social life at LSE? Well, who knows without a comprehensive survey, but some are talking about this in their videos. Same as Durham videos (not just this one) paint a certain picture (intentionally or not), or UCL ones may give other impressions. It’s not the whole story obviously, but it is what it is. In the absence of visiting a place, you are just trying to work out where your DC would be most comfortable and there are pros and cons to all unis. But DS and I suspect most 18 year-old boys, would have no truck with that mentality these days, so I’m surprised you would feel the need to justify it.

quest1on · 26/04/2021 23:18

Do you work in a school though, goodbye. A school in 2021? If you seriously came out with this “boys will be boys,” “stop being uptight, their fathers were worse” argument, you’d be out on your ear these days.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:20

My own DS's would find much of that video utterly cringy too quest1on. It is cringy. I suppose I happen to know that it doesn't represent Durham particularly well at all, so perhaps I feel on stronger ground. But what I really found not ok at all was to link the boy's professional profile on MN, to laugh at him. Now that probably, actually, makes me the most matronly of all.

(I've just looked at his profile myself and have never heard of the boy in question and have never known anyone at his firm - so absolutely no connection at all, not even a remote one, for clarity).

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:21

My view is that the girl was completely happy to have her boobs focussed on. She was wearing a dress and looks absolutely delighted. I tend to believe quite strongly in a woman's choice.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:23

If I was going to be out of anything on my ear, I would have been out a long while ago. I tend not to be too shy with my views.

bendmeoverbackwards · 26/04/2021 23:23

@goodbyestranger

It's certainly silly, I'll give you that.

I'm not in the least right on but nor am I massively uptight. There's a middle ground. Indeed it's arguable that those who fancy being right on would be exactly those who see male entitlement in a puerile video where in fact there is none. I think that would be the more right on person.

I’d rather be on the upright side if it stops one girl or woman being harassed or sexually assaulted. Which happens on a daily basis to hundreds of women.

bendmeoverbackwards · 26/04/2021 23:27

@goodbyestranger

My view is that the girl was completely happy to have her boobs focussed on. She was wearing a dress and looks absolutely delighted. I tend to believe quite strongly in a woman's choice.

And that makes it all right?

I find your attitude absolutely unbelievable. It’s like I’ve stepped into some 80s parallel universe.

As for over reacting - we all need to over react to EVERY unwanted action or comment. Hell we’ve under reacted for far too long.

quest1on · 26/04/2021 23:28

The fact that the girl felt as if she had to play along with it, is the whole point surely.

Anyway, I’m not getting into an argument about something that’s blatantly obvious. I just hope that boys at Durham and other unis don’t still have parents who excuse their behaviour with “oh, never mind Mungo, it was worse in the 80s. Just tell them not to be uptight, that’ll do nicely...”

bendmeoverbackwards · 26/04/2021 23:31

@goodbyestranger

Oh for goodness sake bend. Prosecuted for inappropriate comments and actions which were fended off perfectly easily? No crime was committed and I don't think any workplace policy at that time would have addressed the issue. I don't think I ever read the policies, but I'd bet a few bob that sexual harassment wasn't included as a thing.

No crime was committed? *@goodbyestranger* you talk of ‘actions’ by which I presume you mean groping or other unwanted touching. Yes that is sexual assault and a crime. Maybe the workplaces wouldn’t have been interested but there’s nothing to stop the victims prosecuting a historic case.

jano69 · 26/04/2021 23:41

The LinkedIn profile showed a 29 year old solicitor not a 19 year old boy..... just saying.

Picking out books in the library about feminism and sexual aggression was in poor taste and not reflective of the Durham I know. It looked to me like the girl felt she had to play along....

God help him if he ever takes up a job in government and someone finds that video. We could've actually done him a favour by messaging him on LinkedIn to let him know he was being discussed on this forum and that perhaps this is a good time to delete his channel.

But the messages are deleted now....

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:46

Of course he's that much older now. The video was made in 2012. I don't see the point.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:47

Well I was waiting for someone to say the girl looks unhappy!

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:52

bend - and you'll be glad to know I'm about to switch off the light - I wouldn't ever dream of considering taking prosecution time away from serious crimes by initiating complaints against people for things done which were utterly harmless and which I was completely able to deal with. That would be immoral.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:58

quest1on I might just correct you on your imputation that my four sons behave in any way inappropriately with women. I have four sons and four daughters and all appear to be able to get on extremely well as equals with the opposite sex as well as their own.

I'm not sure what your quarrel us with the name Mungo incidentally. It's a relatively mainstream Scottish name.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2021 23:58

*is. No rubber glove excuse any more.

LoonvanBoon · 26/04/2021 23:59

Why on earth has any post that mentions Mr Chalkly-Wotsit been deleted? His video's in the public domain, as is his Twitter account (gentleman extraordinaire and banter fulfiller, apparently). I agree that it would have been doing him a favour to alert him to the fact that it was being watched in 2021. Hopefully he would be mortified and remove it.

bendmeoverbackwards · 27/04/2021 00:00

@goodbyestranger

bend - and you'll be glad to know I'm about to switch off the light - I wouldn't ever dream of considering taking prosecution time away from serious crimes by initiating complaints against people for things done which were utterly harmless and which I was completely able to deal with. That would be immoral.

Utterly harmless?? You think a woman being groped is harmless?

LoonvanBoon · 27/04/2021 00:14

Maybe someone should let the college know. They could ask their former student to take the video down. I'm sure they wouldn't be very happy for prospective students to be able to watch such a negative and, I'm sure, unrepresentative portrayal of the college.