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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Another path to greatness - part III

999 replies

chopc · 23/03/2021 17:59

Here is the new thread

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chopc · 12/04/2021 22:56

I was talking about @Vargas DS when I said he sounds a lot like mine

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raspberryrippleicecream · 12/04/2021 23:25

Longtimenewsee. Yes, DS2 has applied for integrated masters. His older brother finished his last summer (no graduation!) and is now doing a PhD.

Longtimenewsee · 13/04/2021 00:25

Glad to hear your elder ds did well on his course @raspberryrippleicecream . Great that that he has started phd too! Were there any negatives to doing the masters as opposed to 3 year straight undergraduate and then separate masters do you think? I wasn’t really aware of integrated masters before Dd applied tbh but I can’t think of any particular cons?. Dd seemed pretty set on the idea anyway.

Xenia · 13/04/2021 08:07

(On the twins' awful exam yesterday... I said, to comfort them, everyone probably found it hard so there would be some moderation surely but apparently not. If 100% fail that one they all fail)

Needmoresleep · 13/04/2021 09:13

Integrated Masters mean that you can get student finance for all four years. Plus you know the fee level in advance. If you want to shock yourselves look at some of the Masters fees changed by the likes of Imperial (in particular their management courses) and LSE for finance/economics. Some are in excess of £30,000 for the year.

The drawback of an integrated Masters is that you are tied to the same institution, so can't trade up or move location.

Quite a lot of technical professions, like engineering, require a masters. DS equally needed a Masters if he wanted to continue with economic forecasting type work (no integrated Masters available, we just had to cough up) or to continue onto a PhD in mathematical economics. However job in his field are well paid so if it were a straight financial decision it would have been a good one, and he earned some money working as a research assistant and lived at home.

However amongst DCs peers there are a lot of panic masters, even panic PhDs.

Once again our experience of LSE is different to that of Percy. Students are incredibly career focussed and for many, University is just the next step towards an identified career path. 70% of students are from overseas, often paying huge fees. Most will not have travelled half way across the world, or across the Channel, for the "student experience" but to gain advantage in the future career race.

Even in my day at the LSE we felt that living and studying in London gave us a head start. We were already urban and adapted to the City and so switching to working there was not such a big leap.

When DS started the LSE offered an orientation day for parent. Many overseas student had not visited before, indeed had never visited the UK, so this was their chance to explain how things worked to the accompanying parents. Some bits were great. The shock as American parents tried to compute the fact that their DC could and should use the NHS in an emergency. The many ways in which you could pay the fees, with a strong caution that parents should pay the LSE directly, not give the money to their DC.

The Director at the time outlines various services including the careers service. If your child was not ambitious or career minded, not to worry. By the end of the first year peer pressure would almost guarantee things had changed. Then lots of graphics showing future career destinations listed by employer: GS; JP Morgan and so on. They knew their audience.

DS played the game for a while. Because of its location there are frequent "networking events" where major banks etc send along their senior economist to give a talk, students turn up in suits clutching a CV, and get a free breakfast. However within as year he had decided the last thing he wanted to be was an Investment Banker. That said peer influence still applied. From an early stage he knew Masters students who were planning PhDs, and was well informed about the courses he needed to take and the direction he needed to follow. By third year he had managed to inveigle his way into a regular session for PhD students, their supervisors and senior academics, where someone would present their research to date and peers would provide constructive criticism. That, and regularly attending office hours, meant that he was able to obtain quite personal references from internationally recognised academics. He is now studying for a PhD in the US (applying with good knowledge of who was where and who was most likely to offer funding) along with a healthy network of LSE peers. Add in the sheer wealth of visiting academics and the strength of their public lectures, and the links between academic staff and Government and private research, and it is culturally quite different from a campus University, with, I would argue, naturally higher aspirations.

(DD is studying a biomedical subject in London at the moment and it is similar in that the academics teaching her are from all over the world and involved in exciting cutting edge research. If she wanted to be an academic there is a clear path through to a PhD and beyond.)

As part of the orientation day current students gave tours of the campus. Our guide was an earnest Portuguese student who pointed out the careers service and explained that in your first term you could only have three face to face appointments, which he seemed to think was a deprivation. Surely all first term student would want to visit the careers service more than three times! DS was paid to be a guinea pig a couple of times for City firms designing recruitment schemes, but though he applied from his first year onwards he only got one internship, which was at the end of the second year, though picked up some useful RA work at other times, and was given a free summer school place at the end of his first year by a supportive lecturer. The practice was useful not least because he realised fairly early on that though his technical skills were good his interview skills were less so. I organised a small amount of coaching and was runner up for a really prestigious internship at the end of his third year.

This was a DS with relatively few career ambitions when he started. Many others were far more focussed. LSEs biggest course is Accountancy, with plenty of others taking Law, Economics and Finance, with even courses like Geography focussed on practical applications. It could claim to be the worlds most prestigious vocational college.

DS earned some money from a tutoring agency by helping a new international student chose course options. You need your first for GS, and this student was not going to leave anything to chance. The courses had to be hard enough to open the door for useful second and third year options, but not so hard your grades might suffer.

And yes. Internships play a big part in recruitment. One of DS' friends landed a really sought after GS Easter internship, and was then offered the even more sought after, and remunerative, summer internship. She turned it down. IB was not what she wanted to do with her life. Many of her peers would have thought she was mad.

I hope that helps. Once DS decided he wanted to head for research or academia he valued the aim-high culture. Those friends that took jobs with consultancies etc, also did very well. Part of the way to be successful in job search is to practice. If you do have your three career interviews in your first term and then have internships after your second and third years, you will be a step ahead of others who have waited until after their finals. Though students elsewhere will be doing the same, I suspect that what is normal at LSE is less common in other places.

Xenia · 13/04/2021 10:49

Those considering masters etc should also consider the student loan situation., Eg if you do a 3 year degree you can then use the new student loan masters loans for a masters after such as one for those wanting to convert to law or who already did law and need to fund the bar or solicitor's course afterwards which gives you about £11k of funding.

chopc · 13/04/2021 13:22

Thank you for that input @Needmoresleep . Something to reflect on

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Vargas · 13/04/2021 13:34

Just got fees for summer 'exams' - £230. That's with a discretionary 25% off. Interestingly, friend's dd in same year at affiliated school have no extra fees (yet). Maybe it depends on which resources they are using for the 'exams'?

Needmoresleep · 13/04/2021 13:37

Sorry about the length and typos.

It is clear from Percy's post that experience of LSE varies enormously, to the extent that I don't really recognise her description. DS was at the right place. And despite the pandemic, DD is really enjoying being in London and the strong academic culture.

PresentingPercy · 13/04/2021 13:50

I think you have not read what I said. It is a highly selective university. It is no different in that respect to Oxbridge. That is plainly obvious. So it gives exactly the same benefits to its students. Who, given what they study, are invariably ambitious. So it is not just the university itself. It is who it recruits. I really cannot see what there is to disagree about. Apart from the standard "Percy" snide that comes with every post from NMS. It is utterly tiresome to be followed like this - constantly. On every thread.

Needmoresleep · 13/04/2021 14:03

I was referring specifically to your post above.

I think LSE is very different to Oxbridge, in part because of the location, the specialism and the make up of the student body.

Many students who apply will not have applied to Oxbridge. Many will have applied to top US Universities, the Grande Ecoles, NUS, and to other Universities across the world.

I will confess to that I find the need to place everything in the context of Oxbridge tiresome. Where does this obsession come from. LSE and Imperial have international reputations. No American could talk about Stanford or MIT in the context of how they compare with an Ivy. The UK has a number of good Universities. Can't we just celebrate that.

BigWoollyJumpers · 13/04/2021 14:27

@Vargas

Just got fees for summer 'exams' - £230. That's with a discretionary 25% off. Interestingly, friend's dd in same year at affiliated school have no extra fees (yet). Maybe it depends on which resources they are using for the 'exams'?
Ha, if only. DD's school not using any of the boards resources. I wonder whether I should query our £300 bill? Not sure I have the energy tbh.
BigWoollyJumpers · 13/04/2021 14:37

In other news, and apologies to those who haven't even had all their offers yet, but DD has put in her accommodation requests for Exeter. So much time spent researching, deciding between catered or not, which halls, whether to request quiet..... the list was long! In the final analysis no-one is guaranteed their first choice anyway, and it is a lottery system, so no benefit in getting in early either.

The biggest hitch, was she changed her mind from catered to self-catered. DH and I started out thinking catered would be better, for our peace of mind as much as anything, and having only experience of DD1 at Oxford. Now, from speaking to lots of contacts, everyone else has said go for self-catered. I am on board with that, DH is not. He is very grumpy about it actually, as he doesn't want her to any extra stresses. It's interesting too in that if she had gone to Oxford it would have been catered, and if she had chosen Warwick, it is all self-catered. It would seem too much choice is a bad thing!

chopc · 13/04/2021 14:45

I was told that the school is charging us because the exam boards is charging them. A whopping total of £572.87. @BigWoollyJumpers @Vargas - perhaps the differences are because of additional subject and one of DS subjects being music, requires more assessments?

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BigWoollyJumpers · 13/04/2021 17:00

@chopc

I was told that the school is charging us because the exam boards is charging them. A whopping total of £572.87. *@BigWoollyJumpers* *@Vargas* - perhaps the differences are because of additional subject and one of DS subjects being music, requires more assessments?
Wow! That's a big bill Shock.

The only positive I could find, was that we get our initial deposit back at the end of this term, when they produce the final invoice..... every little helps!

SeasonFinale · 13/04/2021 17:28

Are you usually charged for exam fees normally by your schools? Ours are included. The only ones being charged anything are the "year 14s" doing retakes.

chopc · 13/04/2021 19:39

@SeasonFinale yes exams are charged as extra

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chopc · 13/04/2021 19:43

@BigWoollyJumpers looking through other threads and WIWIKAU students in self catered halls seemed to have had a better time of it than those in catered halls due to having communal space to socialise.

Mr DS didn't consider any self catering accom as he really does not want to bother with thinking about food in his first year. My feeling is he will likely miss a lot of meals due to sports practice and other activities ........ but hey ho

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ChimneyPot · 13/04/2021 20:06

@BigWoollyJumpers
DD has to state if she wants a “substance-free” dorm. Brown living up to its reputation as the Ivy for pot smoking liberals.

BigWoollyJumpers · 14/04/2021 09:50

[quote ChimneyPot]@BigWoollyJumpers
DD has to state if she wants a “substance-free” dorm. Brown living up to its reputation as the Ivy for pot smoking liberals.[/quote]
Shock - That's hilarious..... and we think we have too much choice Grin.

DD procrastinated about whether requesting "quiet". Chatting with on-line applicants it seems most are requesting that, so her misgivings about ending up with too many socially inept people (just like her!), doesn't seem too much of an issue ie: if most people are applying for quiet, then you will still have a good cross section of people, rather than everyone wanting to stay in their rooms.

Parker231 · 14/04/2021 11:53

f2f Uni classes to recommence from 17 May - just announced.

Parker231 · 14/04/2021 12:12

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-56731330.amp

raspberryrippleicecream · 14/04/2021 18:00

@Longtimenewsee

Glad to hear your elder ds did well on his course *@raspberryrippleicecream* . Great that that he has started phd too! Were there any negatives to doing the masters as opposed to 3 year straight undergraduate and then separate masters do you think? I wasn’t really aware of integrated masters before Dd applied tbh but I can’t think of any particular cons?. Dd seemed pretty set on the idea anyway.
Need more sleep pretty well covered it. I'd add that Ds1 enjoyed being in one place for four years and not having to apply for Masters or Jobs in his third year. His friendship group were all doing masters too, so he was able to continue sharing with the same group.

Yes to the panic Masters and PhDs. DS1 had intended to do a Phd and actually had his offer in place Christmas 2019, but he knows people who settled on that route as a result of Covid.

Longtimenewsee · 14/04/2021 23:56

Thanks @Needmoresleepand @raspberryrippleicecream

Needmoresleep · 15/04/2021 00:24

Again looking ahead, but something a friend's son learned that I then found useful to understand is that a stand alone Masters can be very intense especially if it is not a strong fit with your first degree. DS had already taken a very mathematical first degree and staying on the Masters was more of the same, albeit at the next level up. Quite a lot on the course had come from less mathematical degrees and were looking to improve their technical skills. They had a lot of catch up, so for many the first term was very hard work indeed. The knock on effect is that they did not have time to apply for PhDs, or presumably jobs, in parallel. Also academic staff would have less sense of their potential when writing references. The norm was to follow with a 'gap year' working as a research/teaching assistant and filling out PhD/job applications. DS did not need to catch up so had time to apply for a small number of PhDs during his Masters year, and was slready known to potential referees. He saw it as a practice run, but luckily ended up with a couple of funded offers.

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