Oxford and Cambridge current students

[sandybayley]

Nearly filled up the old one...

Ironoaks, thanks for letting me know. That's similar to what DS1 heard from his Cambridge college but there's been no news for DS2 from his Oxford college, which is worrying, especially in the light of the FT article you kindly linked, EllieFredrickson. Halfway through May will be about halfway through the entire term!

@ofteninaspin
Will the practicals involve using a time machine so they can have that learning before their final exams?

@Ironoaks I suspect the extra labs are to enable students to meet the requirements they need for an accredited degree. I know for Chemistry the RSC demands a certain amount of hours - hence why Oxford allowed Year 1 and 4 back last term but didn't allow 2 and 3 back.

@Ironoaks, if only!
DD’s cohort have missed out on entire core modules (immunology, tropical ecology) and all final year research projects were replaced with online data projects. The idea in June is to catch up with the skills needed to proceed to master’s degrees or jobs in immunology labs etc.
Exams will be based on the modules that did go ahead or last minute substitutions - in some cases far removed from original choices. I assume it’s the same for science students everywhere.

Should add that DD’s dept made the decision to get first years back ahead of third years so that freshers have the skills required to proceed to second year. There isn’t lab space to get both years back simultaneously and immunology labs/staff are entirely given over to the vaccine rather than teaching anyway.

D's college has emailed to say that any requests for return will only be considered for welfare reasons and must be accompanied by 'proof'. Otherwise everyone must wait until w/c April 19th for a decision on returning to Oxford.

That’s rubbish @JulesJules. I am so angry about this. In that case, will colleges please stop posting images of their students back in college/libraries/marquees because it’s not helpful to the mental health of those trapped at home without such facilities.

@JulesJules this is so depressing and unfair. I think I have to try and stop thinking about it for a bit!

In worst case scenario - if they aren't allowed back for the start of term, do we think that they will all definitely be allowed back from 17th May? Or am I just clutching at straws here?

[quote sandybayley]@Ironoaks I suspect the extra labs are to enable students to meet the requirements they need for an accredited degree. I know for Chemistry the RSC demands a certain amount of hours - hence why Oxford allowed Year 1 and 4 back last term but didn't allow 2 and 3 back.[/quote]
It's the Materials Science department which is resuming in-person practicals (and I believe Engineering, although DS doesn't study that). They also offered every practical live in the lab in Michaelmas term (which must have taken some doing to manage with social distancing).

The Physics department held some first year practicals live in the lab in Michaelmas term, but none scheduled for Easter term as far as DS knows. If he pursues the Physics pathway, the degree is supposed to have IoP accreditation.

The Chemistry department has offered no in-person practicals at all for first years, so I'm not sure how that works with RSC accreditation.

Anyway, we appreciate the effort from the Materials Science department. I wonder whether the disparity will affect students' choices of what to study next year.

@Pepermintea D1 doesn't think she could fit packing/travel/unpacking etc in once term has started. We're 300 miles away, so have time off arranged and overnight hotel booked in 0th week. We'd need to give the hotel 3 days notice of cancellation, which we won't have.

@ofteninaspin

That’s rubbish *@JulesJules*. I am so angry about this. In that case, will colleges please stop posting images of their students back in college/libraries/marquees because it’s not helpful to the mental health of those trapped at home without such facilities.

Agreed. I also think colleges should hold off on publicising on social media about their readiness for hospitality for tourists and conference delegates. It's really insensitive.

My daughter is going back as an Arts-Humanities MPhil student (to her Cambridge college accommodation). This has been agreed by her college, even though there is no need for access to Labs or Workshops. She has been working incredibly hard, 7 days a week most weeks. She has now finished 2 huge dissertations and the third is nearly done. Now to the thesis ... !

There has been no cleaning service in Covid times so her room will not have been touched since the last lockdown was announced in England. She has a spring clean to do! ... And she will have to cook for herself again, at least some of the time.

She will go to her nearby Cambridge GP straight away and check about Vaccination. Anyone know about vaccinations in Cambridge please?

Pastoral care in Cambridge colleges during one year of lockdowns? I'm afraid it has been variable, with both some heartening and some some shocking stories emerging.

Overall, she is desperate for a few last walks around Cambridge before she leaves for her PhD overseas (Covid permitting) and desperate to see her friends even if she cannot hug them. She feels a type of trauma, still, with no farewells in March last year, no final term there as an undergrad. She fears she may never physically meet some of her Undergrad cohort again, especially those in the Far East!

We are grappling with the emotions of 'losing' our daughter overseas soon! ... All the best to all students, back at home or at their colleges!

DS has lost his confidence a bit in chemistry. We talked about the possibility of him taking Chemistry A next year, and he pointed out that he has not yet been in a university chemistry lab and wouldn't feel confident using the equipment. He is not a gifted chemist, but there will be some in his cohort who are. I hope the first year experience doesn't put them off.

JBX2013 I don’t think Cambridge is any further ahead than anywhere else in the UK with covid vaccines. Student age son who is in group 6 has had his, other one hasn’t been called. This month GP hubs seem to be busy with second shots. Guess the decision not to use AZ on under 30s will slow things down as well.

My DD 19 and a few of her friends were all called to have vaccines around 6 weeks ago with no underlying issues. At Cambridge.

@Ironoaks

DS has lost his confidence a bit in chemistry. We talked about the possibility of him taking Chemistry A next year, and he pointed out that he has not yet been in a university chemistry lab and wouldn't feel confident using the equipment. He is not a gifted chemist, but there will be some in his cohort who are. I hope the first year experience doesn't put them off.

I'm not sure that many chemistry labs are likely to require being a 'gifted chemist', in a practical sense. A steady hand helps, and an ability to read instructions and remember to turn on a switch. happy memories of being a 'demonstrator' in undergrad chemistry labs, from the comfortable viewpoint of having been employed as a chemist for 35 years without setting foot in a lab. I'm quite curious to find out if there's going to be a surge in numbers of computational chemists and molecular modellers resulting from the disruption.

DS tells me that it's all kicking off on his college group chat and that students are very, very angry. Good, I say. I hope they make as much noise as possible.

I remember DS1 deliberating between. NatSci at Cambridge and Chemistry at Oxford and him telling me that there wasn't enough Chemistry in NatSci for him. I wonder if those who really enjoy chemistry tend to opt for Oxford like DS1?

I know the NatSci (Chem) MSci is RSC accredited but I don't know how many students do that. I guess as students are still deciding what route to take Cambridge doesn't need to make sure all their NatSci students are getting lab time in Year 1.

DS1 will be back in Oxford next Sunday. I hope as many of his friends as possible will be there.

Oh and DS1's slightly mad theory is that the Government wants to avoid 'Eat Out to Help Out' being blamed for the surge in cases last autumn and would rather students were blamed. So he thinks the students are being held back to 'prove' it was due to them in Autumn. Slightly random but I have to humour him or he starts ranting again...

@SnapSnapDragon I wonder what the students can actually do, but hopefully something if they are United. It just seems so wrong and unfair that they can't all go back. I'm wondering which college your DD is at, but realise that you might not want to say.
DS says that his college principal (?) has just gone on annual leave so no decisions can be made. They aren't happy and have received a vague email about it all. He doesn't want to talk about it though.

Sandy that may have come from an Oxfess post on FB.

@Lovecatsanddogs I'm not sure that's the case across Cambridge. DD1 has been there since mid-January and not been called for a vaccine. She is registered with a GP in Cambridge.

@Ironoaks, I'm not sure which year your DS is in but DD is a Materials Scientist in her 4th year. The department seems to be really proactive and sensible. In the autumn, they ran the same lab on 3 occasions to allow for appropriate distancing. DD's Masters project had specific time-slots that she was able to book in for that reason. I wouldn't worry too much about the Chemistry now.

I do understand people's frustration about seeing some students seemingly back and sitting in marquees etc. DD has featured in some of the social media posts about her college. However, in her case there really are not very many people there at all, so the few that are there and who are prepared to step in to do things will naturally end up in the photos. I suppose that a lot of it is about marketing the colleges for the next generation of students as hers are not accepting any summer visitors.

As far as the Oxford vs Cambridge for straight science vs NatSci goes, DD is delighted that she didn't apply to Oxford for Chemistry as one of her best friends did. She has always loved the subject but wanted to keep her options open. The fact that NatSci meant that she could follow a broader range of subjects before specialising means that she is now focussing on Materials Science, something she would never have considered straight from school. DD's friend is sick of the subject now and looking for alternative graduate jobs. DD was talking to my cousin, a Materials graduate about the content of her work over the summer. Cousin said that DD is already way ahead of where she got to by the end of her degree and DD has included Chemistry, Computing, Maths and History/Philosophy of Science too.

Iron it is sad to hear his confidence has gone. Does his college have pastoral support he can tap into?

The way different colleges are working is frustrating. If it was one or the other it would be OK - but it must be so annoying to see some colleges welcoming their students back with open arms and others shuttering the gates.

Pepermintea the ONS has already done the number cut on EOTHO and it was damming. There was a strong correlation with the uptake and case clusters. And when weather was laid over the top even more so.

@Unescorted it's only Chemistry where he has lost a bit of confidence. He isn't finding the organic chemistry that fascinating, and his physical chemistry marks dropped slightly towards the end of term. Not having had any in-person labs hasn't helped. He used the feedback from his report to guide his revision over the vacation. I think he should do OK in the exams, but I'm not sure he feels equipped enough in the subject to continue with Chemistry next year.

His Maths continues to be strong, as does his Physics. He is finding the Materials Science really interesting, and got 80% in the mock exam which sounds encouraging.