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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

No uni return til Aug/Sept

502 replies

Newgirls · 10/02/2021 15:59

So Edin and St A have said no f2f teaching til next academic year (apart from med and some post-grad) and students should not be there unless v specific needs. Very sad that this cohort are going through this. I assume English unis will follow?

OP posts:
Original poster
Newgirls · 15/02/2021 18:35

I’ve seen high profile uni academics arguing to NOT lift restrictions! They are all over bbc and Twitter! Not all want to be on campus. I’m glad that some do.

And as I’ve said complaints don’t seem to have much impact and as mums need wine says / it’s a lot to ask an 18 year old against unionised and large legal teams.

OP posts:
TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 18:38

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheJerkStore no one is blaming you. You sound like you are doing your best. As a teacher I know how it feels to be vilified so I'd like to say thank you for all you're doing did your students. They found v lucky,
My own DDs are doing ok. Not perfect but managing. But some Unis have seriously let the students down and are providing v little. Complaining is hard when you're 18, alone in a strange city and relying on the people you're complaining about to give you a grade !
Let's hope everything can start to open up soon. So students can meet each other and make friends. That's what they need. Human contact.[/quote]
I fully understand this - we want out students on campus. I miss them!! Campus is a sad place without all the students.

I understand that not all students have had a positive experience but we need to make a distinction between what is an individual university issue and what relates to government restrictions. It's not fair to blame universities for the lack for f2f teaching since the start of December as we were told to move online at that point.

Anything before then needs to be looked at on individual basis.

TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 18:40

@Newgirls

I’ve seen high profile uni academics arguing to NOT lift restrictions! They are all over bbc and Twitter! Not all want to be on campus. I’m glad that some do.

And as I’ve said complaints don’t seem to have much impact and as mums need wine says / it’s a lot to ask an 18 year old against unionised and large legal teams.

They don't represent all academics. I don't know a single academic who is happy with the current situation. If a student is feeling overwhelmed by the complaints process then I would advise they contact the students Union as they will be able to support them.
Kazzyhoward · 15/02/2021 18:52

@TheJerkStore

If there is a lecture theatre that usually holds 100 people I really don't see why it can't now hold 25. I saw the plans of my building. It really is like this as long as we have maintain 2m social distancing. University buildings are rooms can be odd shapes which doesn't help.

I've not seen one thing from Unis asking the government if they can do this ? And government stuff is only ever guidance, not law.

My university was told that if an outbreak could be traced back to campus and that campus wasn't complying fully with the guidance then we could be in a serious amount of trouble .... and if someone was to die as a result of that outbreak? Put it this way, no university was going risk not making sure the campus went the whole way in implementing the guidance.
If schools can do it (with no money) I can't see why Unis can't.

Universities have spent a shit load of money making sure campuses were Covid secure.

Virtually shutting down the uni campus is a very lazy way of making it covid secure.
TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 18:54

Virtually shutting down the uni campus is a very lazy way of making it covid secure.

Tell the government this.......

mumsneedwine · 15/02/2021 18:58

But it's not all the government. Some subjects were given permission to have students back, so students went back as told they had to. But still nothing. That's not fair.

GaribaldiGirl · 15/02/2021 18:58

@TheJerkStore my issue is with the universities who are declaring in January/early Feb that there will be no F2F till September. The government have not asked them to do that yet many have already issued statements. Why? It just feels like they’ve given up on our DC too quickly.
I don’t see why you can’t do some F2F and some online? For my DD doing English, for example, they could have F2F tutorials for those in situ and online for those who are learning remotely. They are subdivided into groups on the course anyway. Lectures can be online - or perhaps even F2F for those who can attend but also recorded. In fact my DD1 has ADHD and has always watched the recordings of lectures after attending them (pre Covid) because she can’t concentrate through the whole thing. Works really well.

Kazzyhoward · 15/02/2021 18:59

@burnoutbabe

lets see in my case, if tutorials went f2f.

Say 15 one each class, timeatbled in since start of year to not clash with all our other modules.

5 live on campus - fine they can go in. 5 are International and therefore can;t attend. 5 are in UK but at home, and either would face long train journeys to get in or would have to rent a hotel/room for 5-6 weeks of 2nd half of semester.

How could they all do a tutorial at once? those "at home" would miss out on the interaction (its hard enough to get much interaction when we are all online).

But its very hard to re-arrange all of them into other tutorials.

And lectures, a lot of my lecturers are recording stuff in advance, already prepared for an online format. Suddenly making them have to present it in person (and others watch online) will be disruptive to bits already prepared.

So why did Uni's "encourage" students to move into campus accommodation last September then? If they knew they couldn't do F2F because of students staying at home (or abroad), then they were pretty dishonest in telling students that there'd be "blended learning" on their websites in August/September, when clearly they knew there weren't going to be! (Yes, I know the answer - the Unis wanted the accommodation money!).
Kazzyhoward · 15/02/2021 19:01

@TheJerkStore

Virtually shutting down the uni campus is a very lazy way of making it covid secure.

Tell the government this.......

The Govt didn't tell Uni's to shut down in Sept/Oct nor November, yet those months, most lecturers and Uni staff weren't on campus at my son's Uni, and he got no F2F from lecturers at all (Maths degree). His campus was a ghost town except for the medical/science lab buildings.
TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 19:03

@mumsneedwine

But it's not all the government. Some subjects were given permission to have students back, so students went back as told they had to. But still nothing. That's not fair.
Then they should complain
TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 19:03

The Govt didn't tell Uni's to shut down in Sept/Oct nor November, yet those months, most lecturers and Uni staff weren't on campus at my son's Uni, and he got no F2F from lecturers at all (Maths degree). His campus was a ghost town except for the medical/science lab buildings.

Then he should complain

mumsneedwine · 15/02/2021 19:05

@TheJerkStore or Uni could fulfil its contract and provide the education is promised. I'm sorry but continually telling 18 year olds to complain is unrealistic. I'm just sad Unis can't see what they need to do and just do it. They have let the students down.

chopc · 15/02/2021 19:05

From my perspective getting a degree is only part of Uni life. Living independently, making new connections, societies etc is also an important part of the Uni experience. I think the powers that be need to remember that .......

Yes ok apparently most societies are run by students - but they need to be "allowed" to run them when restrictions ease

Chocomel · 15/02/2021 19:08

Imperial have always said that there's be no on site teaching this academic year. My other son hung on in at Aston (which meant missing Christmas at home because of quarantine) until last week and he came home. They've confirmed no face to face teaching for the rest of the year. (He'd had lab based teaching in the first term).

Changi · 15/02/2021 19:09

What we did shortly after term 1 started was to split tutor groups into wholly on-campus F2F or wholly off-campus using Teams. There were no mixed groups. It improved everybody's experience.

Trying to have a live tutorial with half the group in the room and the others remote proved unworkable.

TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 19:12

my issue is with the universities who are declaring in January/early Feb that there will be no F2F till September. The government have not asked them to do that yet many have already issued statements. Why? It just feels like they’ve given up on our DC too quickly
I don't work at any of the universities that have done this. Mine hasn't. All we know is that we are online until Easter. We had to make that call for planning purposes.
If you want more information on an individual university's plans then you need to speak them directly.
.
I don’t see why you can’t do some F2F and some online? For my DD doing English, for example, they could have F2F tutorials for those in situ and online for those who are learning remotely. They are subdivided into groups on the course anyway.

Because you will get students complaining that one group is getting a more favourable experience. It's not always possible ( impossible for me) to teach f2f on campus and be 'live' for those at home. Therefore I'd had have to deliver lectures twice. I'm already working 50-60 hours a week so don't have the capacity to add more teaching to my timetable.

Lectures can be online - or perhaps even F2F for those who can attend but also recorded.
Then you get students complaining that they never get 'live'. All my f2f teaching is recorded as standard but it's much better to have live interaction.
In fact my DD1 has ADHD and has always watched the recordings of lectures after attending them (pre Covid) because she can’t concentrate through the whole thing. Works really well.

Works well for you daughter but not for everyone...most people like the live session AND the recording.

mumsneedwine · 15/02/2021 19:15

So these decisions by Unis are nothing to do with the government. They are the Unis making their own decisions to not offer f2f this academic year. It's honestly pathetic, if I can run a less with 30 11 year olds both in person and online I'm baffled why it can't be done with 18 year olds.
Students are being let down badly.

TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 19:19

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheJerkStore or Uni could fulfil its contract and provide the education is promised. I'm sorry but continually telling 18 year olds to complain is unrealistic. I'm just sad Unis can't see what they need to do and just do it. They have let the students down. [/quote]
You really need to stop treating all universities as one homogeneous group.

Okay don't complain to an individual university about their provision but I can tell you that moaning about a sector that's as diverse as the HE sector won't get you anywhere. Provision varies so much it's a fruitless task.

It would be like me complaining and criticising all schools for my sons poor remote learning experience that was provided by his individual school ...... it wouldn't get me anywhere.

mumsneedwine · 15/02/2021 19:22

@TheJerkStore I agree. But there are so many now saying no f2f until Sept it's upsetting all students. So if some Unis are hoping to offer something then it would be good if they could say. Because students are getting so so desperate for a crumb of hope.

TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 19:22

@mumsneedwine

So these decisions by Unis are nothing to do with the government. They are the Unis making their own decisions to not offer f2f this academic year. It's honestly pathetic, if I can run a less with 30 11 year olds both in person and online I'm baffled why it can't be done with 18 year olds. Students are being let down badly.
Again, assuming all universities are the same!!

A small number of universities have said this BUT most are waiting for the government to announce their plans for universities.
Most universities have said teaching will be online until Easter because we need to be able to plan and set timetables. Very few have announced plans beyond that. However, for the vast majority of students their teaching finishes at Easter so there will be very little in campus teaching happening anyway.

Original poster
Newgirls · 15/02/2021 19:23

This thread is about some unis already saying there will be no f2f until Aug/sept. Aston and imperial also now on the list.

They do seem to be making their own decisions.

OP posts:
mumsneedwine · 15/02/2021 19:24

Why not offer some f2f teaching next term ? Times are not normal so change the usual timetable Give the students a chance to actually meet each other.

TheJerkStore · 15/02/2021 19:26

@mumsneedwine

Why not offer some f2f teaching next term ? Times are not normal so change the usual timetable Give the students a chance to actually meet each other.
Because I am already timetabled to teach on other courses in term 3 and exams/assessments have been set. I can't move anything into term 3 as there just isn't the capacity.
Original poster
Newgirls · 15/02/2021 19:26

I think it’s important to inform parents and students (tho not many here!) what’s going on before they spend yet more money on acom - tho most won’t be able to reclaim it some first years might be able to.

So we have some (all?) Scottish unis, two London, Aston so far saying no f2f now til next academic year. Not waiting for bj.

Hold onto those cheques people!

OP posts:
mumsneedwine · 15/02/2021 19:28

Exactly. If no teaching next term surely no fees either.