No uni return til Aug/Sept

[Newgirls]

So Edin and St A have said no f2f teaching til next academic year (apart from med and some post-grad) and students should not be there unless v specific needs. Very sad that this cohort are going through this. I assume English unis will follow?

newgirls and mumsneedwine you need to acknowledge that so much of this is out of universities control.

We have been told by the government that only certain subject can have f2f teaching right now.
Prior the the most recent lockdown universities had to make their campuses COVID secure which severely limited the amount of f2f teaching that could take place on campus. This, coupled with years of mass redundancies across the sector and the A level results cock up, meant universities were put in an impossible situation.
We can't just magic up staff and rooms.

I have to say the consultation email my dd got was very loaded towards certain answers! She is not happy about no labs or f2f and I am sure countless other students feel the same!

In addition to emails we had live Teams meetings with staff and student course and module representatives (all present at the same time).

If your daughter isn't happy, she should make her concerns known to her SSLC reps.

She has complained but then what? Nothing.

Some unis did f2f last term, some didn’t. Some are staying closed for f2f til Aug/sept and some are saying they plan to open. So it’s not true to say ‘hands are tied’ - they all seem to be doing dif things!

It’s not about magicing buildings tho is it? Some f2f did and could happen. One issue is staff not living near the uni and it being pref for them to not have to do f2f? Also expensive for unis to open up, run labs, studios etc. I don’t think the uni staff and spouses posting on this thread would have the same view if it was their own kids in this situation.

@Newgirls

She has complained but then what? Nothing.

Some unis did f2f last term, some didn’t. Some are staying closed for f2f til Aug/sept and some are saying they plan to open. So it’s not true to say ‘hands are tied’ - they all seem to be doing dif things!

Because no two institutions are the same!!! Some had the space to do socially distanced f2f teaching others simply don't. Some courses had to take more students than they could accommodate because of the A level cock up - again, not the university's fault.

It's not that hard to understand surely?

There will be a clear complaints process - usually 3 stages. If your child feels they've gone as far as they can with the university complaints process then the next stage is the office of independent adjudicators for HE. They have some very clear guidance on their website explaining how to make a complaint.

She has complained but then what? Nothing

Has she asked for a response from her rep? If the complaint was raised, at an SSLC meeting, it will be minuted, along with the response from the department.

Commas in the wrong places. Sorry.

@mumsneedwine I share your frustrations. I’m sure every university and course is slightly different but speaking for my two DDs, I think they have been forgotten. Neither of them have seen a single lecturer or fellow student on their course face to face this academic year and I’d like to think the university had a sense of urgency to fix that ASAP.
Every time I watch the ladies at Tesco scan my shopping I think how wonderful they are - touching all the items we’ve already touched.
Lectures could remain online but tutorials and seminars could be F2F for those who wish to attend. They are split into groups anyway so you could surely have half F2F and half online.

It’s not about magicing buildings tho is it? Some f2f did and could happen.
Not all universities are the same. Seriously, if you can understand this then lots of other issues make sense.

One issue is staff not living near the uni and it being pref for them to not have to do f2f?

That's not on and is absolutely worthy of a complaint.

Also expensive for unis to open up, run labs, studios etc.
This isn't why f2f teaching isn't happening.

I don’t think the uni staff and spouses posting on this thread would have the same view if it was their own kids in this situation.

Some of us do.....
I also care very much about my students and the quality of my course. I've put a significant amount of effort and time into making sure my course can run as well as it can during a global pandemic. The vast majority of academics want to be on campus interacting with our students f2f but we've been told we can't do that. We have no choice.

Or Uni could show a little compassion towards an 18 year old. Away from home and getting into massive debt for the privilege. Because they were not told this is how this year would go.
I do feel some have shown v little care. Bristol have been really good as far as I can see, providing excellent food packages when students were isolating and followed up with phone calls to check on them. But other Unis not been so caring. And it is care they need. The mental health issues being stored up are going to take years to solve. The isolation and loneliness is so so sad. At some point Unis need to reopen and I hope they are planning this now. The students need support in person not via Teams.

@GaribaldiGirl it's making me so sad now. It feels like Uni students have been completely forgotten. These kids are our future and yet we are treating them like cash cows.

I share your frustrations. I’m sure every university and course is slightly different
Not slightly different- there are huge differences in individual universities and courses.
but speaking for my two DDs, I think they have been forgotten. Neither of them have seen a single lecturer or fellow student on their course face to face this academic year and I’d like to think the university had a sense of urgency to fix that ASAP.

Raise this with university. If they don't address it then go to the OIAHE.

Every time I watch the ladies at Tesco scan my shopping I think how wonderful they are touching all the items we’ve already touched.
Lectures could remain online but tutorials and seminars could be F2F for those who wish to attend. They are split into groups anyway so you could surely have half F2F and half online.
Again, the GOVERNMENT has told us we can't offer f2f teaching and we haven't been told what is going to happen after March 8th yet.

You can't offer f2f teaching to just some of the group. It has to be consistent. Anything else results in numerous complaints.

[quote mumsneedwine]@GaribaldiGirl it's making me so sad now. It feels like Uni students have been completely forgotten. These kids are our future and yet we are treating them like cash cows.[/quote]
Take this up with the GOVERNMENT!!!!!

@TheJerkStore

It’s not about magicing buildings tho is it? Some f2f did and could happen. Not all universities are the same. Seriously, if you can understand this then lots of other issues make sense.

One issue is staff not living near the uni and it being pref for them to not have to do f2f?

That's not on and is absolutely worthy of a complaint.

Also expensive for unis to open up, run labs, studios etc.
This isn't why f2f teaching isn't happening.

I don’t think the uni staff and spouses posting on this thread would have the same view if it was their own kids in this situation.

Some of us do.....
I also care very much about my students and the quality of my course. I've put a significant amount of effort and time into making sure my course can run as well as it can during a global pandemic. The vast majority of academics want to be on campus interacting with our students f2f but we've been told we can't do that. We have no choice.

You sound very defensive and I’m afraid a lot of this isn’t accurate. My dds uni has huge spaces and also staff who don’t live near. Her complaint/query was answered in such blasé terms - what really is an 18 year old expected to achieve against a sept of lawyers? I understand you feel criticised personally but this isn’t the thread for you. Plenty of people on here are saying their kid hasn’t had f2f etc and have had poor experiences. And this is a place for that. Others are saying why are other jobs able to cope better - and fair enough. Unis could argue for fewer covid restrictions if they seem stricter than elsewhere but it seems that doesn’t suit them?

@mumsneedwine

Or Uni could show a little compassion towards an 18 year old. Away from home and getting into massive debt for the privilege. Because they were not told this is how this year would go. I do feel some have shown v little care. Bristol have been really good as far as I can see, providing excellent food packages when students were isolating and followed up with phone calls to check on them. But other Unis not been so caring. And it is care they need. The mental health issues being stored up are going to take years to solve. The isolation and loneliness is so so sad. At some point Unis need to reopen and I hope they are planning this now. The students need support in person not via Teams.

Yes this!

@TheJerkStore

I share your frustrations. I’m sure every university and course is slightly different Not slightly different- there are huge differences in individual universities and courses. but speaking for my two DDs, I think they have been forgotten. Neither of them have seen a single lecturer or fellow student on their course face to face this academic year and I’d like to think the university had a sense of urgency to fix that ASAP.

Raise this with university. If they don't address it then go to the OIAHE.

Every time I watch the ladies at Tesco scan my shopping I think how wonderful they are touching all the items we’ve already touched.
Lectures could remain online but tutorials and seminars could be F2F for those who wish to attend. They are split into groups anyway so you could surely have half F2F and half online.
Again, the GOVERNMENT has told us we can't offer f2f teaching and we haven't been told what is going to happen after March 8th yet.

You can't offer f2f teaching to just some of the group. It has to be consistent. Anything else results in numerous complaints.

It is already inconsistent even within same dept!

At some point Unis need to reopen and I hope they are planning this now. The students need support in person not via Teams.

You have no idea how much planning is going on behind the scenes. Since March last year every university I know has has 3 strategies on the go .... fully online, blended and fully f2f. All with full, detailed strategic plans which need constantly updating when the government changes the goal posts.

If your university has handled things badly then complain but don't assume all universities are the same and don't blame them for things that are out of their control!

It is already inconsistent even within same dept!

Because not all course are the same!
What works for psychology isn't going to work for counselling......

It's the lack of human contact that is causing so many issues, not the teaching. Students expect to be able to meet other students on their course, discuss their subject and talk as to staff members who they can ask questions of. None of this is the same via zoom.

If there is a lecture theatre that usually holds 100 people I really don't see why it can't now hold 25. I've not seen one thing from Unis asking the government if they can do this ? And government stuff is only ever guidance, not law.
If schools can do it (with no money) I can't see why Unis can't. And yes I know they are different. But they still involve someone teaching and others learning.
Let's hope on Monday Boris doesn't completely forget Unis exist yet again.

I started this thread to point out that some unis have already said no f2f til Aug.

Some uni staff on here have said they are making plans for after Easter.

It’s an inconsistent mess and yes I do blame this shitshow gov but also I think individual unis and depts have been inconsistent. An individual student is not going to win against that - get a refund? Make up lost f2f? Unlikely.

@mumsneedwine

It's the lack of human contact that is causing so many issues, not the teaching. Students expect to be able to meet other students on their course, discuss their subject and talk as to staff members who they can ask questions of. None of this is the same via zoom. If there is a lecture theatre that usually holds 100 people I really don't see why it can't now hold 25. I've not seen one thing from Unis asking the government if they can do this ? And government stuff is only ever guidance, not law. If schools can do it (with no money) I can't see why Unis can't. And yes I know they are different. But they still involve someone teaching and others learning. Let's hope on Monday Boris doesn't completely forget Unis exist yet again.

Yes this makes sense to me. I hope with jabs being offered to all adults by sept the situation improves. Surely it will!! Even if only because the unis want the rent money!

@TheJerkStore no one is blaming you. You sound like you are doing your best. As a teacher I know how it feels to be vilified so I'd like to say thank you for all you're doing did your students. They found v lucky,
My own DDs are doing ok. Not perfect but managing. But some Unis have seriously let the students down and are providing v little. Complaining is hard when you're 18, alone in a strange city and relying on the people you're complaining about to give you a grade !
Let's hope everything can start to open up soon. So students can meet each other and make friends. That's what they need. Human contact.

PS I'm exhausted after afternoon with a bunch of loud 11 year olds. So can't type !

You sound very defensive and I’m afraid a lot of this isn’t accurate. My dds uni has huge spaces and also staff who don’t live near. Her complaint/query was answered in such blasé terms - what really is an 18 year old expected to achieve against a sept of lawyers? I understand you feel criticised personally but this isn’t the thread for you. Plenty of people on here are saying their kid hasn’t had f2f etc and have had poor experiences. And this is a place for that. Others are saying why are other jobs able to cope better - and fair enough. Unis could argue for fewer covid restrictions if they seem stricter than elsewhere but it seems that doesn’t suit them?

I'm defensive because I'm fed up of people blaming universities for implementing restrictions imposed on them. Teachers are allowed to complain people doing this but academics aren't??

I have consistently said that if someone feels they haven't had a positive experience then they absolutely should complain. The universities minister has also been very clear about this.

How do you know universities aren't arguing for fewer restrictions? Pretty much every academic I have seen on any thread discussing this issue has made it clear that they want to be on campus teaching f2f. However, you should also remember that f2f teaching in a pandemic isn't the same as teaching f2f during normal times. Its not always better than online especially if you have sit 2m apart wearing a mask and aren't allowed to congregate or socialise.

If there is a lecture theatre that usually holds 100 people I really don't see why it can't now hold 25.
I saw the plans of my building. It really is like this as long as we have maintain 2m social distancing. University buildings are rooms can be odd shapes which doesn't help.

I've not seen one thing from Unis asking the government if they can do this ? And government stuff is only ever guidance, not law.

My university was told that if an outbreak could be traced back to campus and that campus wasn't complying fully with the guidance then we could be in a serious amount of trouble .... and if someone was to die as a result of that outbreak? Put it this way, no university was going risk not making sure the campus went the whole way in implementing the guidance.
If schools can do it (with no money) I can't see why Unis can't.

Universities have spent a shit load of money making sure campuses were Covid secure.