No uni return til Aug/Sept

[Newgirls]

So Edin and St A have said no f2f teaching til next academic year (apart from med and some post-grad) and students should not be there unless v specific needs. Very sad that this cohort are going through this. I assume English unis will follow?

Uni vice chancellor could offer support. As could research scientists who understand virology. And education lecturers who can see their students having rubbish placements online. We are probably educating their kids.
So Unis can stay closed but schools can't ? Both provide education so why not the same rules ? It seems Unis can decide for themselves how much f22 they offer (as you say some are doing more than others). Some are doing none. Yet they have space to do some. Our kids have been left to rot. No tutor contact, very little live stuff so little interaction with fellow students. If Unis could just acknowledge that it's been terrible it might help. These kids have been abandoned to just get on with it, but are still expected to pass exams to the same standard as other years, even though they have mostly had to teach themselves.

@TheJerkStore there is. But there is no will to do it. If back, f2f, with others joining online. It's not perfect, but it better than nothing.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheJerkStore there is. But there is no will to do it. If back, f2f, with others joining online. It's not perfect, but it better than nothing. [/quote]
You don't understand how universities work.
We have to be consistent - we can't offer some of the group f2f but not others.... not to mention the face this would essentially double ( if not more than double) an academics workload.
I have enough time to deliver my lectures once - I can't suddenly magic up time to deliver the same lecture twice. And besides, I'll say it again we currently are not allowed to offer f2f teaching unless your happen to teach a very specific course identified by the government.

Everyone working in higher education is ridiculously over worked at the moment- even if was our place to start getting involved in how schools are being run there simply isn't the time. We're all just trying our best to keep our universities going in very challenging circumstances.

Warwick have been brilliant. F2f tutorials for the whole of term 1 Inc November lockdown and they also did labs in November too..
Only issue is that no proper labs this term because of government restrictions.

Its just a shame that some universities have performed better than others. Dd certainly does not want to go back on the 8th March for two weeks and Warwick have already said no labs this term.

I'd obviously prefer dd to be having a normal experience at university but she's shown incredible maturity and also given her liver a rest.

@TheJerkStore I do understand and I can totally empathise. But we teach online and in person at the same time - to kids of 11, so fail to see why 18+ couldn't handle this. It doesn't double your workload at all. And who says you can't do f2f to only some ? The Uni ? Because it's certainly not the students (who are paying !).
There just doesn't seem any pressure on Unis to get back asap. Seems they can carry on like this for as long as they want. And students can just suck it up.

Uni vice chancellor could offer support.

In what way?

As could research scientists who understand virology.
Again, what do you want them to do?

And education lecturers who can see their students having rubbish placements online.
This needs to be dealt with on an individual basis. My students are all undertaking placements are are having an excellent experience.

So Unis can stay closed but schools can't ? Both provide education so why not the same rules ?

Ask the government

It seems Unis can decide for themselves how much f22 they offer (as you say some are doing more than others). Some are doing none.
You know universities are all different yes?
There are guidelines from the DfE but they are implemented differently across the sector because universities are not one homogeneous group

Our kids have been left to rot. No tutor contact, very little live stuff so little interaction with fellow students. If Unis could just acknowledge that it's been terrible it might help. These kids have been abandoned to just get on with it, but are still expected to pass exams to the same standard as other years, even though they have mostly had to teach themselves.

It's not been terrible across the board. If a student feels they have not had a positive experience then there are clear procedures which allow them to make an official complaint.

I'm saying f2f for those courses that are back - because they were told they had to be. Why can't that happen on 8th March ? If it's safe in educational establishments?

@TheJerkStore wow. Well I'm glad your students are having great placements. No idea how when schools are closed to all but KW kids. And health care students have mostly had theirs cut short or cancelled. Wish Unis staff could understand the harm they are causing students by not trying to give some student interaction. Anything, however small would help. Kids are lonely and struggling - 4 of DDs friends have dropped out.
If Warwick can do it why can't others ?
I've decided I'm going to follow Uni rules as a teacher. I'll go back when they do to f2f teaching. Seems fair.

I do understand and I can totally empathise. But we teach online and in person at the same time - to kids of 11, so fail to see why 18+ couldn't handle this.
I can't do this. It's just not possible in the subject I teach. It doesn't allow for a positive experience for those online. Material need to be adapted to work effectively for an online session. Plus, the technology we have for recoding session on campus doesn't allow for it be broadcast 'live' and a teams session just doesn't work on that scale - not if you want interaction... I'd need another member of staff with me and they don't exist!!

It doesn't double your workload at all. And who says you can't do f2f to only some ? The Uni ? Because it's certainly not the students (who are paying !).

Can you not see the issues with this? Especially as you've mentioned fees..... so one part of the group get f2f teaching on campus but the others can only access the teaching online. Can't you see how this would just generate complaints and cries of unfairness??

There just doesn't seem any pressure on Unis to get back asap. Seems they can carry on like this for as long as they want. And students can just suck it up.
Again, universities are waiting for the government to tell us when we can resume f2f teaching. None of us in HE want to carry on like this. I want to be on campus teaching my students f2f but we aren't allowed!!! I'm not even allowed to go into my office to work.

DD 2nd year medicine was told to return in Jan as a future critical worker course but all F2F and placements cancelled this term. They were told to return. The variable F2F offers across different unis just adds to the feeling that uni students have been forgotten by gov. There is no sector wide guidance. Let’s hope they are included in next week’s roadmap but I’m not holding my breath.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheJerkStore wow. Well I'm glad your students are having great placements. No idea how when schools are closed to all but KW kids. And health care students have mostly had theirs cut short or cancelled. Wish Unis staff could understand the harm they are causing students by not trying to give some student interaction. Anything, however small would help. Kids are lonely and struggling - 4 of DDs friends have dropped out.
If Warwick can do it why can't others ?
I've decided I'm going to follow Uni rules as a teacher. I'll go back when they do to f2f teaching. Seems fair.[/quote]
Seriously, are you choosing to ignore that face that this is a GOVERNMENT decision.
I know this doesn't fit with your ' I hate universities' narrative but it's the truth.

My students are undertaking virtual placements across a wide range of education settings and it's been very positive. Some school based placements were cancelled/postponed but not all.

It's not been terrible across the board. If a student feels they have not had a positive experience then there are clear procedures which allow them to make an official complaint

I agree with that. If there has genuinely been no tutor contact (assuming you mean not even online) that is not acceptable. Where I work, we've been doing much more individual tutoring and pastoral support during the pandemic, to the point where our students are saying that they have never had so much contact with us.

I've decided I'm going to follow Uni rules as a teacher. I'll go back when they do to f2f teaching. Seems fair.

This suggests you think we're all sat at home doing fuck all...... maybe I'm imagining the fact I've never been so busy or worked such long hours. No half term for us.....

I'd go back onto campus tomorrow if they'd let me but the GOVERNMENT says no.

I'm concerned that, as a teacher, you seem to think universities and schools are the same thing and should be subject to the exact same guidelines.

@TheJerkStore wow. Why would I think that ????? Sorry but no clue where that came from. No, I assume you'll be doing remote teaching, like I have been for the past 6 weeks. Sorry but that assumes you think that's what teachers have been doing. Nice.

I'm going to go and do work with KW kids now. And I don't hate Unis at all. I hate the lack urgency I think. To help the young people who, as has been demonstrated by comments on here, were sold a dummy about what they would get.
Let's hope the government allow Unis to get back to some kind of normality. Not sure why they are so different to schools - both provide an education ? But I'll leave it there. Stay safe.

@MrKlaw

its just a numbers game. Younger children going back helps parents go back to work. Not having everyone go back at the same time means you can stagger returns and monitor the effects on cases etc before you do the next phase.

As much as we may not like it, arguably university students are likely the last to go back (in terms of the education population). Especially as May onwards is likely exam season for many, and they're already announced as online - so for the sake of what may only be a few weeks f2f, vs being more cautious and waiting for the new year may allow them to fully open schools or other areas earlier

I see that logic. They miss out but are more able to make the most from online teaching.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheJerkStore wow. Why would I think that ????? Sorry but no clue where that came from. No, I assume you'll be doing remote teaching, like I have been for the past 6 weeks. Sorry but that assumes you think that's what teachers have been doing. Nice.[/quote]
I know teacher haven't been doing that . I know how busy they are and how hard they have been working.

Your comment about following university staff and only going back when all f2f teaching resumes seemed to suggest we have it easy. Which we don't.

All of your posts suggest teaching online is something we are choosing to do. You constantly ignore fact that, like schools, we currently have no choice in how we are operating or delivering our teaching.

You also seem unable to understand that universities are subject to different guidelines to schools. When we were teaching f2f we had to ensure that social distancing of 2m was in place everywhere on campus - including classrooms and lecture theatres. This dramatically reduced the number of people we can teach at a time.
For many universities and courses it was impossible to offer f2f teaching because we simply don't have the staff capacity to teach session a number of times to small groups.

You need to stop comparing schools and universities because they're too different to enable an effective and direct comparison.

@mumsneedwine

So Uni students can just be left alone even longer ? Some first years have yet to meet a person on their course, let alone a member of staff. For £9,250. Why should they have to wait when schools won't ? These are 18/19 year olds, away from home and trying to make the best of it. But it's shit. If anything can be done to help them then it should be. As soon as possible.

Yes my dd hasn’t met a single person from her course yet, or any one from her dept.

Lots have dropped out or delayed a year - at what cost to their mental health

Not sure why they are so different to schools - both provide an education?

Really? And you're a teacher so presumably went to university??

lets see in my case, if tutorials went f2f.

Say 15 one each class, timeatbled in since start of year to not clash with all our other modules.

5 live on campus - fine they can go in. 5 are International and therefore can;t attend. 5 are in UK but at home, and either would face long train journeys to get in or would have to rent a hotel/room for 5-6 weeks of 2nd half of semester.

How could they all do a tutorial at once? those "at home" would miss out on the interaction (its hard enough to get much interaction when we are all online).

But its very hard to re-arrange all of them into other tutorials.

And lectures, a lot of my lecturers are recording stuff in advance, already prepared for an online format. Suddenly making them have to present it in person (and others watch online) will be disruptive to bits already prepared.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Changi students were NOT consulted. When my DD started she was promised blended learning with both f2f and online. And then the dukes changed, just after they had signed their contract. All online. Not what was agreed at all.[/quote]
Agree with that. Unis are not providing what they promised before contracts were signed. Some Unis misled students into signing contracts for tuition and accommodation and then almost immediately after the deadline date, changed their websites to remove/reduce the amount of face to face tuition.

students were NOT consulted.

@mumsneedwine I am speaking for the institution that I have first hand knowledge of. I am not speaking for all UK universities.

With that in mind, I can confidently state that they were consulted on the issue of F2F resuming in term 2 and 3 as I was party to the consultation process.

@Changi

students were NOT consulted.

@mumsneedwine I am speaking for the institution that I have first hand knowledge of. I am not speaking for all UK universities.

With that in mind, I can confidently state that they were consulted on the issue of F2F resuming in term 2 and 3 as I was party to the consultation process.

The students on my course were also consulted - out of 37 students 36 said they wanted all delivery to be done online. The 37th student said they would like some f2f but understood why that might not be possible and has since said they they enjoy the online sessions more than they expected.

Student feedback has also stated that this years teaching has exceeded all expectations.
Some universities are doing a good job!!

Sorry, was working. I'm very glad to hear students are doing ok on your courses. That really is great. But for first years they'd like the chance to meet others. So even if the course is being delivered well online this doesn't mean they are ok. Having something once a week with other students would help them meet others. Remarkably mine has managed to meet others in halls before full lockdown began. But she has met 6 people out of 185 on her course. And that's v sad.

I have to say the consultation email my dd got was very loaded towards certain answers! She is not happy about no labs or f2f and I am sure countless other students feel the same! Drama, art, music, film students etc I doubt are happy with online.

Given some of the replies on this thread I’m now worried that f2f in aug/sept will be limited too. Jeez I hope not.