No uni return til Aug/Sept

[Newgirls]

So Edin and St A have said no f2f teaching til next academic year (apart from med and some post-grad) and students should not be there unless v specific needs. Very sad that this cohort are going through this. I assume English unis will follow?

Not true of all Scottish unis. There are far more universities in Scotland than Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow!!!!

@mumsneedwine I agree with you completely. It’s annoying me that there are no F2F tutorials or seminars planned till September. Surely if schools are back Unis should return to something closer to normality. My DDs are doing Arts subjects, they haven’t seen another person from their course in person or had a F2F for nearly a year. Actually DD1 had very little before because of the strikes last academic year.
Surely the lecturers should do F2F with those who are available and remote for those who aren’t? Lectures could still be online but it would be so great to have ‘real’ seminars and tutorials.

@mumsneedwine

I'm starting to get cross. I'm expecting to be back in a full school on 8th March, unvaccinated. I'll be with up to180 different students each day, in close contact with no masks. Yet Unis are giving no f2f until September ? Someone explain how that makes any sense ? If it's safe for schools then it's safe for Unis. Or neither is true.

Join me in being cross!

Travel will be the reason given.

The answer IMO is gov can control schools but not unis. Or can’t afford to support unis. Something around that.

I do wish teachers/school staff and uni staff are given/offered vaccine ASAP at the very least those over 50.

My dd uni has said the buildings are Covid safe - they have marquees etc up too. Yet here we are. Unions? Difficulty timetabling everyone? Not wanting international travel/domestic travel? Yes reasons but as dd uni has ample testing facilities it seems out of proportion.

@gavisconismyfriend

Not true of all Scottish unis. There are far more universities in Scotland than Edinburgh, St Andrews and Glasgow!!!!

Apparently all Scottish unis doing same thing tho as they are following N Sturgeon guidelines? Whereas English ones are waiting for 22 feb announcement?

Timetabling is an issue. Buildings may be covid safe but that is likely to have been achieved by 2m distancing (and masks). As a result, room capacity is severely reduced. You need to run a session four or five times to compensate. There is neither the space nor the people to enable that.

@Changi so do a rota. 1/4 in and 3/4 watching online. And change the people in each time. These students have not had the chance to meet people on their course and it's demoralising. And lonely. Do small group work.
And if schools don't need social distancing why do Unis ? Surely they have the 'magic tape' that repels Covid in educational establishments?

How would a rota help? If a session has to be run four times instead of once, it takes up four times the space and four times the time of the person supervising. Universities have the same room availability as pre-covid and the same (or fewer) staff.

If it was practically possible, it would be done. Universities are as keen to get students back as anybody else. Which why some are making plans to do just that, as best they can, in term 3.

Without social distancing universities are not deemed safe places to work. For students and staff. Only the government can relax those restrictions.

@Changi you missed my point. You teach once. With 1/4 of students in front of you and the rest remotely. And alternate. Then everyone gets to meet each other. You teach one lesson but get to see some f2f.
And I agree no social distancing makes an unsafe workplace. But it's what teachers have been expected to do from Sept to Dec and looks like we will be again from 8/3. So if we have to do it for education then why don't Unis ? Some of the Uni students are same age as our repeating year 13s

@Kazzyhoward

If this becomes widespread, there needs to be a national policy on refunding accommodation costs for those in Uni owned/campus accommodation. Lots of Unis are dragging their feet about refunds/discounts etc for those who are told to stay at home. Paying £6k for a room a student has only occupied for 10 weeks isn't acceptable (especially when they didn't need to be there in the first place due to no/little f2f even before the new variants etc).

I agree it's a rubbish situation for the students, but if there were to be a national (government-led) policy on refunding halls rent, there would also need to be a government financial support package for universities to fund this.

Universitites have been pushed for the last twenty-odd years into operating like businesses, and have invested huge amounts of money into student accommodation. The relatively small uni I work at is losing upwards of £250k a WEEK in halls income. I imagine some unis will be at risk of folding if they are forced into rent rebates without government support. As it is, many unis are already having to make very difficult desciions re. the courses they run and the staff they employ.

You teach once. With 1/4 of students in front of you and the rest remotely. And alternate. Then everyone gets to meet each other. You teach one lesson.

I see what you are getting at, and that is effectively what will be done because of space and and staffing issues. At least it will in the uni that I have first hand knowledge of.

And I agree no social distancing makes an unsafe workplace. But it's what teachers have been expected to do from Sept to Dec and looks like we will be again from 8/3. So if we have to do it for education then why don't Unis ?

Because it is unsafe and the line has to be drawn somewhere? Again, that isn't something universities can control.

@Changi so Uni teaching staff can stay safe. But school staff can't ? I hope you can see how ridiculous that seems. My life is worth less for some reason. Why does a line have to be drawn. Either it's safe, or it's not (it's obviously not, but schools did it. And staff died.). I'm cross.

I understand why you are cross, but you appear to be directing your anger at universities, and that isn't fair. They are not forcing you to teach f2f with no safety measures.

Expecting university staff to work in unsafe conditions just because you do is daft. You have said yourself that teachers have died because of it. Two wrongs don't make a right.

@Changi I agree. I don't want Uni staff at as much risk as me. Be nice though if Uni staff could support colleagues in schools - we are providing your next customers.

I also have 2 kids paying a fortune for their education and can't see why some more f2f(mine get some as medicine and vet med) can't start soon. Hopefully next Monday things will be clearer. Vaccinate us all and then we could all provide the education we want to.

Travel is not really a valid excuse - many students beyond 1st year are back doing online only from their private rented accommodation - am also aware of some tho not all freshers already back too. A staggered return with testing and then f2f by rota as suggested seems no riskier than schools restarting. I agree with @mumsneedwine, if it’s ok for schools then should be the same for unis where students are more able to follow rules than key stage 1. The financial implications for the unis to say nothing of the mental health impact of the isolation on students is huge.

I think surely easier for unis to do some f2f than schools?

Tutorials in lecture theatres for a start. Or sports halls/theatres/marquees. With social distancing, surely possible for some.

Agree lectures can’t happen yet.

I’m angry vaccines seem to be being held back from school staff in case it’s an admission of ‘not being safe.’ Apparently whole school staff could be done in a day across England?! I know id be happy to wait a bit longer for my over 50 jab.

its just a numbers game. Younger children going back helps parents go back to work. Not having everyone go back at the same time means you can stagger returns and monitor the effects on cases etc before you do the next phase.

As much as we may not like it, arguably university students are likely the last to go back (in terms of the education population). Especially as May onwards is likely exam season for many, and they're already announced as online - so for the sake of what may only be a few weeks f2f, vs being more cautious and waiting for the new year may allow them to fully open schools or other areas earlier

So Uni students can just be left alone even longer ? Some first years have yet to meet a person on their course, let alone a member of staff. For £9,250. Why should they have to wait when schools won't ? These are 18/19 year olds, away from home and trying to make the best of it. But it's shit. If anything can be done to help them then it should be. As soon as possible.

Be nice though if Uni staff could support colleagues in schools - we are providing your next customers.

I what way be nice? What support are you looking for?

We aren't allowed to do F2F teaching at the moment. F2F had to stop at the end of term 1. It will resume, restrictions permitting, in term 3. Students were consulted before these arrangement were made.

A staggered return with testing and then f2f by rota as suggested seems no riskier than schools restarting.

A staggered return starting when? If the 8th, term 2 will be over before everybody is back.

@Changi students were NOT consulted. When my DD started she was promised blended learning with both f2f and online. And then the dukes changed, just after they had signed their contract. All online. Not what was agreed at all.

And support wise ? Maybe get your Unis to issue statements about thinking schools should be made safer.

And lots are already back so even just give f2f to them.

And I agree no social distancing makes an unsafe workplace. But it's what teachers have been expected to do from Sept to Dec and looks like we will be again from 8/3. So if we have to do it for education then why don't Unis ? Some of the Uni students are same age as our repeating year 13s

You do realise universities are subject to government guidelines in the same way schools are and they are different to school guidelines because they're different types of education establishments!!! Also, universities can't dictate what happens in schools so I don't know what statement you want us to make 🤷🏼‍♀️

We aren't allowed to do F2F teaching at the moment. F2F had to stop at the end of term 1. It will resume, restrictions permitting, in term 3. Students were consulted before these arrangement were made.

^This. I don't know what people are expecting universities to do? Disobey the government-mandated lockdown? I did 100% of my teaching f2f last term and am only teaching online because the government has instructed it. Once the government gives us the green light, I'll be back in the classroom. Same with my colleagues, and my DH, who teaches in another university.

I think anyone looking to start university next autumn needs to find out which universities have been offering f2f during this pandemic. Because there is planning for blended learning and social distancing to continue in the autumn, given that students are unlikely to have been vaccinated by then. As a general rule, the universities with more modern, large campuses (such as Warwick, mentioned above) have been doing a fair bit of f2f teaching.

And support wise ? Maybe get your Unis to issue statements about thinking schools should be made safer.

I don't know why you think academic staff have the ability to get their universities to do anything. Our voices have the least clout in the whole organisation.

@mumsneedwine

And lots are already back so even just give f2f to them.

We can't do this. We can't offer F2F teaching to just some of the students on a course - there would uproar and complaints.

Currently we are not allowed to offer f2f teaching. There is nothing we can do about that.