No uni return til Aug/Sept

[Newgirls]

So Edin and St A have said no f2f teaching til next academic year (apart from med and some post-grad) and students should not be there unless v specific needs. Very sad that this cohort are going through this. I assume English unis will follow?

I don't know what I'm saying really - just that it's hard, and I don't know what the answer is, or what is in our power to do that would help students feel like they'd had a meaningful year, because circumstances are what they are.

@mumsneedwine

So you agree schools should remain on line too ? Because the issues facing them are exactly the same. Social distancing, lack of space, lots of humans in one place. And they both provide education. I'm not even talking about Unis providing education f2f. Just opportunities for students to meet each other. On a small scale. In a lecture theatre (assume you have those ?). Some seat over 400, so have 40 in there. Lecturer still at home but some students together. And the government have not said you can't do this. Yes it's tough teaching on line and at home but I have to do it to much younger students who need more support so it can be done. This is not going to go away quickly so imaginative thinking is needed.

Yes that would be great. Some meetings rather than none!

My dd uni has 9k students so at a guess 2k graduating. Many overseas. So not beyond all possibilities if gov allow it. But I doubt it will happen.

@feimineach

My fresher daughter would just like to meet some other students during her first year. Ideally before room ballots for next year take place. And also ideally some others from her course. She knows her household from last term - so 5 other students, and that’s it. There wasn’t one single in person event in her subject. Most of the others don’t use their cameras due to poor wifi or anxiety, though she is lucky enough to be able to.

It looks like her university expect to have them back next term. She’s desperate for some in person events of some kind; if this is outdoors in masks for an hour a week it’ll do. She’s just desperate that her subject at her institution don’t decide, like last term, to go further than the legal restrictions and put absolutely everything online. (She signed a contract when they were promising blended learning.) If they do then we intend to seek a legal opinion on paying full fees, as obeying the law is the right thing to do, and going beyond it to protect vulnerable staff members is understandable of course, but every single event being online so she has met absolutely no-one teaching her or on her course is not fair. Especially as the academic she has most contact with is teaching at her university from abroad (not on sabbatical or anything - just moved to holiday home as it’s a nice place to see out a pandemic, as he’s blithely explained) and claims poor wifi so doesn’t have the camera on himself!

So many parents feel like this too ^^

[quote GaribaldiGirl]@feimineach my DD2 did 3 weeks as a fresher on campus at the start of the year - on an empty corridor, eating meals on enforced socially distanced tables for one, basically shut up in solitary confinement with security separating any students attempting to group. This was all well beyond the guidelines at the time. She came home as all teaching is online anyway. She would love just a few weeks back this academic year to actually see a student on her course or a tutor. The whole experience has knocked her confidence.
There has been no direction yet from the government which covers rules for unis beyond this immediate lockdown period. Yet so many universities have given up on F2F activity of any kind till September when I feel they should be acting with a sense of extreme urgency to rescue these young people from their bedroom studies.
My impression is they don’t much care as long as they get their £9250. That’s how it looks anyway.
When I compare the amazing efforts made by the schools my younger children attend with that made by the universities my older ones attend there is a vast difference.
Obviously I dont really know what goes on behind the scenes and maybe these unis are fighting like mad to offer our DCs a better service....?![/quote]
Yes this is our experience too. I know 5 students all from dif unis who’ve now dropped out. Mine is soldiering on as she has a 4 year course but hasn’t had even one f2f tutorial. If it’s like this in sept she will take a year out and save the money. She has a part time local job and will focus on that. She’s meant to be in labs doing a science and nothing. It won’t be worth it for her 😔

"Obviously this depends on the success or otherwise of the vaccination rollout for younger adults but students like my son who is a 2nd year at UCL could end up with no f2f from March of his first year right up to the end of his course. Every opportunity for these students to get any part of a normal university existence needs to be grabbed and if that means teaching is prioritised over other activities for academics then for this year that is right."

Agree. Not just teaching though, but also other aspects like the use of the library, and, on another tack, students' ability to learn from each other - those discussions before and after lectures, tutorial groups and so on, can be quite an important part of the learning process, and so much more effective ftf.

Maybe universities can make the libraries, other facilities such as drama studios etc, available over summer - not everyone will want to use them but some may? (I realise not all students will be able to be there, but private rentals last to july/august)

@changi

I've started to ask them about graduation

How are you phrasing the question?

Wow what is your point here? I don’t think you work in a uni either? If you want to point score pls move on.

On the teaching from abroad, that surprises me as i had heard there were potential tax problems. Maybe it depends on the location of the holiday home - depends on whether there is a double taxation agreement?

In any event, I would hope that the universities could ensure that all academics have adequate webcams, and switch on for lectures.

@TheMerrickBoy

Based on my experience as an academic and also as the parent of a child at university, I think there's quite a lot of disparity - some universities are terrified of students dropping out or demanding fees back, and will force academics back on campus the minute they can. Some are a lot more complacent about what students will put up with. Either way, it's in no sense up to the tutors which line their institution takes, or what they personally offer: it comes from the VC and their coterie, where they see their university in the rankings and who they prioritise. Also perhaps for many, there is a concern about local reputation: if local residents see a deluge of 18-21 year old appear, there is a risk of scape goating (sometimes less justified than others) in regard to local infection rates.

What does interest me is the emphasis here on socialising and graduation ceremonies - but what about the teaching and learning? I've heard lots about students missing the social aspect of seminars, but how do we balance that with the fact that shorter seminars (because of timetable restraints on space) in masks and with no possibility of group discussions, no handouts, no sharing books) are potentially much less conducive than online classes are to productive discussion and learning at the level that UG study is meant to be all about?

I'm not saying students are wrong or silly to miss the social aspect - we all do - but it concerns me that all the focus seems to be on 'experience' rather than learning.

A balanced measured post thank you!

My dd would like to do labs and go to the library, as well as do projects with others face to face rather than on zoom. So ‘experience’ isn’t just about social side of things. Watching someone do a lab isn’t the same as doing it yourself. So I really hope this happens in sept.

Also for some - music, drama, film and many more - online isn’t going to be enough.

I would like universities to be out there on the very edges of the law with legal opinions saying they can do XYZ, proving much of the guidance is wrong and much narrower than the statutory instruments and being at the forefront of legal challenge to our new police state. Instead they seem to be more cautious than another except schools and not into taking any risks at all.

I would also like much less security at universities even halls and let students decide what risks they want to take for example. Universities could also offer to fund some students in bringing legal action against lock down laws that affect them and that kind of thing.

I think a lot of the frustration here is that GOV has decided dif rules for dif education settings which are not always easy to agree with. Not every uni is huge or restricted for facilities and I understand why school teachers are asking why are they being treated differently than uni teachers. It seems to be about workforce, funding etc rather than actual safety. And uni students miss out.

Wow what is your point here? I don’t think you work in a uni either? If you want to point score pls move on.

It's actually a really valid question and exactly what an academic would say!

Yes this is our experience too. I know 5 students all from dif unis who’ve now dropped out. Mine is soldiering on as she has a 4 year course but hasn’t had even one f2f tutorial. If it’s like this in sept she will take a year out and save the money. She has a part time local job and will focus on that. She’s meant to be in labs doing a science and nothing. It won’t be worth it for her 😔

When you mean f2f tutorials do you mean 'in person' or does Teams count?
None of my students have had in person tutorials but they've all had at least one 1:1 tutorial via Teams ( in fact some have had many more!). In the current climate this is acceptable.

If your daughter hasn't had a single 1:1 yet then this is worthy of a complaint and she should pass this on to her student rep.

Wow what is your point here?

Response bias.

I don’t think you work in a uni either?

But you aren't sure?

If you want to point score pls move on.

I'm not point scoring.

@Xenia Hear, hear - I would also like to see universities challenging our new police state. If places of research and learning won’t ask questions then the future looks bleak.

This is a hugely depressing thread from a prospective parent of a September 2021 student. It does seem uni’s are determined not to do any f2f teaching and will likely try and keep this up for as much of the next academic year as they possibly can. I can’t see the point in my daughter going this September based on this thread and deferring may be the most sensible course of action for all future students in all years if they can. It sounds so miserable for current students and I totally get why the parents on this thread are upset. I would be too.

@sashagabadon

This is a hugely depressing thread from a prospective parent of a September 2021 student. It does seem uni’s are determined not to do any f2f teaching and will likely try and keep this up for as much of the next academic year as they possibly can. I can’t see the point in my daughter going this September based on this thread and deferring may be the most sensible course of action for all future students in all years if they can. It sounds so miserable for current students and I totally get why the parents on this thread are upset. I would be too.

I really would take many elements of this thread with a pinch of salt. As a university academic I taught on campus until I was told by the government to move online. Every academic I know is desperate to be back on campus teaching f2f. The loudest voices on threads like these are from a relatively small number of parents. I'm not saying they'd experiences aren't true or valid and of course There have been some universities and some academics who haven't provided good quality teaching but there are lots that have gone above and beyond to support students.

I am working myself into the ground to support my students and every academic I speak to is the same.

@changi

Wow what is your point here?

Response bias.

I don’t think you work in a uni either?

But you aren't sure?

If you want to point score pls move on.

I'm not point scoring.

You said your partner did, not you

Pls try and add helpful info else I will need to report

@TheJerkStore

Yes this is our experience too. I know 5 students all from dif unis who’ve now dropped out. Mine is soldiering on as she has a 4 year course but hasn’t had even one f2f tutorial. If it’s like this in sept she will take a year out and save the money. She has a part time local job and will focus on that. She’s meant to be in labs doing a science and nothing. It won’t be worth it for her 😔

When you mean f2f tutorials do you mean 'in person' or does Teams count?
None of my students have had in person tutorials but they've all had at least one 1:1 tutorial via Teams ( in fact some have had many more!). In the current climate this is acceptable.

If your daughter hasn't had a single 1:1 yet then this is worthy of a complaint and she should pass this on to her student rep.

I meant in person - referring to last term also - since the academic year started

And she has complained with no helpful response

@sashagabadon

This is a hugely depressing thread from a prospective parent of a September 2021 student. It does seem uni’s are determined not to do any f2f teaching and will likely try and keep this up for as much of the next academic year as they possibly can. I can’t see the point in my daughter going this September based on this thread and deferring may be the most sensible course of action for all future students in all years if they can. It sounds so miserable for current students and I totally get why the parents on this thread are upset. I would be too.

It’s about being informed isn’t it. Students were encouraged back last year - mine was told her course would do 3 hours of f2f by week 6-7 of term to include labs. But it didn’t happen. I get we are in a pandemic (of course!) but others at her uni DID get f2f as did some at other unis, so it is inconsistent. It’s very tricky and I think it will depend on your kids course and what they would do if they take a year out.

I meant in person - referring to last term also - since the academic year started

In most cases tutorials via Teams or Zoom is perfectly acceptable. This is one online element I'll be keeping as it works better and is more efficient ( for most people)

Most academic offices are very small so in person tutorials are difficult to do while maintaining social distancing.

And she has complained with no helpful response

Then I'd suggest going to the SU or OIAHE. The universities minister is very keen for people to complain if they have reason to.

If every academics are desperate to get back on campus then why aren’t they screeching it from the roof tops? Why aren’t the VC’s or whoever all over radio 4 lobbying for this, explaining how they can operate safely, what they can put in place to make it safe, like the airlines for example do.
The truth is they are not, in fact they seem to prefer the opposite and I can imagine the goal posts will be moved continuously given the chance. I am only speaking as a prospective parent so I will just have to watch and see what happens but I doubt students or their parents will be so easily tricked into signing contracts this coming year.

Its very tricky.I have one up North who gets 4 hours a week online.Some is prerecorded and some is f2f, but never 1-2-1. She is basically teaching herself and hasn't been on campus since March. (she's 2nd year) I have one down South who is a first year and at home. None of her flat mates returned after Xmas so there was no point going back to be lonely. She was promised blended learning, signed the contract and then the blended part seemed to evaporate. Like another poster she hasn't met a single course mate, has joined no societies as there aren't any, can't go to the gym etc.It is regardless of what anyone says about the overall experience and the Government have woefully let this cohort down.

@sashagabadon

If every academics are desperate to get back on campus then why aren’t they screeching it from the roof tops? Why aren’t the VC’s or whoever all over radio 4 lobbying for this, explaining how they can operate safely, what they can put in place to make it safe, like the airlines for example do. The truth is they are not, in fact they seem to prefer the opposite and I can imagine the goal posts will be moved continuously given the chance. I am only speaking as a prospective parent so I will just have to watch and see what happens but I doubt students or their parents will be so easily tricked into signing contracts this coming year.

I am shouting from the rooftops. My HoD knows how I feel and he feels the same. Not one person in my department wants to remain at home indefinitely. However, we don't have much sway.

I taught on campus the maximum amount of time I was allowed.
However, while we have social distance then that will always be limited.

If I were going to university this September I would be looking very closely at how they have dealt with this last year. It will tell you a lot about their approach to student support and teaching in general.
I suspect those that haven't been particularly supportive aren't shining examples in normal times either.

I don’t mean you jerk. I mean the VC’s , professors etc. You ever hear from them on the radio at all! Why not?!