Oxbridge 2021: another 6 months of fretting

[DahliaMacNamara]

Will they make the grades? How will grades be awarded anyway? What the hell are Cambridge up to with that nasty little clause?

It's been a while since I have been on here - last on here when DD was really struggling with MH,. She seems to have turned a bit of a corner with the combination of a genuine deadline to work towards over half term (EPQ), a parents' evening and the announcement of how grades will be awarded. Thank you to all those who offered advice - it helped me as much as her because it moved me on from feeling utterly hopeless in the face of her hopelessness.

On the offers - DD's firm (Oxbridge) and insurance offers are essentially identical on paper BUT the Oxbridge one has to be in 3 specific subjects, while the other is across any 3 of her 4 (and a possibility that EPQ might be taken into account). There's therefore significantly more wiggle room in practice for her insurance.

That's really good news that she's feeling a bit better @cantkeepawayforever . DS1's Durham offer last year was one A star and 2 As with the star in any of his four subjects. His Oxford offer was 2 A star and an A with a specification in the subjects for the A stars. The flexibility of the Durham offer lifted a big weight off his shoulders.

@cantkeepawayforever really good to hear that things are looking brighter for you DD and you too managed to get some support from this thread.
Certainly the nicer weather and spring flowers coming out is making me feel happier!
EPQ results have just been released here so that was a boost for DD prior to going back next week. Only 1 Uni is taking it into account with their offer but it's unlikely to be her insurance so not really relevant. Nevertheless, it's good timing as has given her a bit of a confidence boost.
Still hanging on for Durham and starting to wonder if it will be Easter before we hear!

I haven't been here for a while. Thought I'd pop in and say hello. Have others made contact with other (hopeful) students in their college? I don't think DD has met anyone at all. Although it's always possible she just hasn't shared this news with me. I seem to recall there might have been another Medwards girl or two on here. If so, could you give me a wave? Or anyone else with an offer to Econ?

DD went on the college offer holders' zoom which she thought was ok. They haven't had her subject specific one yet. She is really reluctant to "meet" people before October as she thinks it's too artificial. She knows 3 people with offers at Murray Edwards, 1 of whom is a close friend of hers, but they apparently feel like her about chatting to people beforehand!

@Chilldonaldchill

DD went on the college offer holders' zoom which she thought was ok. They haven't had her subject specific one yet. She is really reluctant to "meet" people before October as she thinks it's too artificial. She knows 3 people with offers at Murray Edwards, 1 of whom is a close friend of hers, but they apparently feel like her about chatting to people beforehand!

And they're not at all anti social - they're very outgoing and can't wait to have a proper social life again - they just think that they want to finish off school and then start uni without any pre-conceptions of what people are going to be like.

I know DD has chatted with people who got offers for the same course, as well as ones who didn't, but I think at this stage she's a bit wary of assuming she's definitely going.

DD has been chatting most days to people in her college (group chat) but has muted her subject chat as it was too active and starting to annoy her.

Dd hasn't been put in touch with anyone from her college, but I think for her that is a plus, she'd rather get there first and then meet people I think.

My DS has been added to a WhatsApp group for his subject offer holders. They seem like a nice bunch and have even had a zoom session. A surprisingly high number of them were students holding a deferred place, so will be there in October. Other than the initial contact, uni hasn't organised anything. It's all been the students. Only about half of the students with offers/places are in the group though, so pre-uni chat isn't expected.

DS hasn’t been in touch with anyone (college or course) and I’m not sure he would want to either. It’s a bit of a relief to hear that there are others who would also prefer to wait until they arrive, so he won’t be the only one who doesn’t already know loads of people.

I'm not sure how many of you have older children so have been through uni before.
As regards student finance I have a couple of questions if anyone can help please!

1. DD has had an email from her college to return stating that she is responsible for paying tuition fees and will pay them by a certain date. But she will have a student loan for tuition fees. Does she still have to complete and return that form or is it for overseas students? (I've had a look too and it doesn't seem clear or obvious to me).
2. DD is entitled to the minimum (or close to minimum) maintenance loan. If we chose to pay full maintenance so she didn't need to take out that loan, can we change that in future years when her sibling will have hopefully also started uni? (We could manage the full amount for one but not for two). Is there any advantage in her claiming the maintenance loan even if we don't think she'll need it at this stage? (I know in the very early days it was worth taking and keeping because of the interest rates but I have a feeling this might have changed). Thank you for any advice!

Regarding student finance, the form you return is to say that you will pay fees, and there is a box to tick to say if this is via a loan.

In terms of taking the loan out - there is absolutely no point not taking the maximum; most likely your child will end up paying back the same, irrespective of what they borrow, because the high interest rate kicks in the day they start, and they don't start paying back till they are earning a set amount, and then it is written off after 30 years. It is a better plan to think of it as a graduate tax, unless you are envisaging them being in a very very high income job straight away, in which case they may pay off faster. Most people will never pay it off, and so you are better off borrowing the maximum in the first place.

To put it another way - if you assume a debt of £28k on graduating (ie fees only), you would need to be earning a salary of about £41k before you even start reducing the amount you owe, because of the 5-6% interest rate, and the longer it takes you to get to that salary, the higher that amount becomes, because of the interest applied. At 41k, you will be paying back about £1500 a year, £1400 or so of which will be interest - so the debt would only reduce by £100. If you earned £125k, then you would pay back about £9k a year, again £1400 or so would be interest on the fees only loan, and it would take you about 5 years to pay off the debt.

So I guess the answer is - if you're likely to be in a very high-earning salary quickly, it might be worth keeping the debt as low as possible, if you're more likely to be in the 20-70k salary range, borrow as much as you can!

Fwiw, I wouldn't have designed it like this, it would make a lot more sense for it either to come out of general income tax and be free for students, or be a graduate tax that you pay for a set number of years, without high earners 'paying it off'.

Thanks for your replies regarding the college and subject contact. DD has had contact from both it turns out. She wants to attend the subject one (Econ), but it conflicts with revision for a test the next day. So she's going to skip it. There's a college one on a Saturday which she is less interested in attending, but I think will attend because its an opportunity to to learn more about the college and the tutor. But she may well turn her video and sound off.

We are also on course to get all the financial aid we can find. I know nothing about it. DD seems to have it in hand. But if anyone has any ideas we might not have thought of, please feel free to sling it my way.

@BilberryBaggins

Regarding student finance, the form you return is to say that you will pay fees, and there is a box to tick to say if this is via a loan.

In terms of taking the loan out - there is absolutely no point not taking the maximum; most likely your child will end up paying back the same, irrespective of what they borrow, because the high interest rate kicks in the day they start, and they don't start paying back till they are earning a set amount, and then it is written off after 30 years. It is a better plan to think of it as a graduate tax, unless you are envisaging them being in a very very high income job straight away, in which case they may pay off faster. Most people will never pay it off, and so you are better off borrowing the maximum in the first place.

Thank you. V helpful.

Given that Oxbridge have almost certainly not over offered this year I think they should just tell them that they are all in. This would remove a lot of stress. Maths would be the exception but that’s all.

Regarding finance: D1 filled in the student loan applications and DH and I were then contacted for details of household income. You are contacted by college rather than the university (this is for Oxford) to declare how you will finance tuition fees (everyone can just tick loan for that bit) and maintenance. It states that average cost of maintenance in Oxford is 10.5 -14.5k. Obviously this is quite a bit higher than the maximum loan, but there are also the Oxford University bursaries which you will get automatically if you have applied for a maintenance loan and given household income details. (Not sure what happens if you haven't applied for a maintenance loan) Colleges may also have their own. Bursaries do not have to be paid back. There's also a travel allowance which is calculated on distance from Oxford. The maximum is £500 if you live 250 miles or more from Oxford. Some faculties also have book allowances, D1 can charge £60, but hasn't had to buy anything as the Bod is pretty comprehensively stocked 😁(not forgetting faculty and college libraries on top.)

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/fees-and-funding/oxford-support Info on bursaries here, and maximum travel allowance is for distances over 150 miles it says here, I thought it was 250.

That's interesting about the 9 months calculation for finance. DD will almost certainly be spending vacations at home or possibly with her older sibling if that suits, as that's more likely to have seasonal holiday work available. My own financial calculations were definitely based on the 24-week academic year!

Both DC manage successfully on less than the lower end of ballpark figure given. Neither have needed to buy books (college library provides own copies if needed). Various sources of financial help available from college eg travel grants for vacation, free formals.

Yes, D1 managed her first term on a lot less than the quoted figure - of course she was isolating for a few weeks and there was not much opportunity for any kind of entertainment apart from Deliveroo!

If you live out in a houseshare for a year, Oxford is eyewateringly expensive - it's a good thing D1 had a fairly frugal Michaelmas and virtually free Hilary term as her share of a 6 person houseshare for second year is more than our mortgage (and on an 11 month basis rather than standard college 27 week basis).

Is anyone else getting a vibe from other HE threads that O/C courses are forbiddingly pressurised? I'm starting to feel unnerved by it now. I don't know why I should be - DD lives and breathes this stuff - but all this talk of seriously heavy workload is getting to me a bit.

It is going to vary by course Dahlia, but DD usually has two essays and two stats/economics worksheets to complete each week. She usually has to present her essays in a tute every other week for discussion. She regularly works late into the night to submit on time. She "broke up" 10 days ago and now she is catching up on the term's lectures, which aren't needed for tutes. She has 8 modules to pass for PPE this year. It is incredibly hard work compared to friends elsewhere who may only have a couple of essays to submit each term, but she loves it.

DC who have achieved top grades at school alongside socialising, sport and music, other interests, weekend jobs etc are used to juggling deadlines and priorities and will be fine. The terms are short, some courses are more pressured than others but my DC and their friends appear to have time for fun and all their extracurriculars too.