Oxbridge 2021: another 6 months of fretting

[DahliaMacNamara]

Will they make the grades? How will grades be awarded anyway? What the hell are Cambridge up to with that nasty little clause?

Has anyone else read the article in the Sunday Times today about public schools getting fewer Oxbridge offers?

Just read it - interesting to see the different perspectives.

Do you have an online link?

It will be behind a paywall I’m afraid.

I’ll try photos (if that’s allowed):

@DeRigueurMortis

Has anyone else read the article in the Sunday Times today about public schools getting fewer Oxbridge offers?

No I haven't but a friend of a friend has a child at a famous indie which might class as a public school (not sure of the definitions) and they didn't get their C offer this year. Apparently there are lots in the same position and they have decided that O/C are pandering to the proletariat and are all looking at Ivy League universities now. rolls eyes I can promise that they are no loss to C.

Thanks for the photos. I do think the reference to contextual offers in the article is misleading, implying as it does that the proles will be admitted with lower A level grades.

I agree - they misrepresented it. GCSE grades are contextualised as part of the admissions process, but contextual offers aren’t given out.

• that I’m aware of.

I also loved the bit in the article where the independent headteacher says it would terrible for the uk if brilliant students didn’t get into Oxbridge because they went to private schools. Erm - what does he think state school students have been dealing with for years ?

I'm trying to imagine how the HT of the school up the road would feel about 'only' getting 39 Oxbridge offers. They probably haven't had that many in total since the school was built in the 1960s. Plenty of brilliant students, though.

I can't remember what I've written on here before but one of our local schools has had 5 O/C offers this year, having had approximately 1 every 5 years for the last few decades.
Personally I think that zoom interviews might be the significant factor this year - reducing students' anxieties when attending interviews in person and also reducing possible interviewer bias from seeing students in person.
I think it's brilliant.

That’s great to hear, @Chilldonaldchill - well done to those young people!

DS and I were talking about the Times article and we thought there might be other factors at play, like the efforts being put into outreach and access by Oxbridge (much more active on social media channels offering advice and encouragement to applicants) ; admissions tutors being advised to look beyond the obviously coached personal statements to recognise potential in other places; mentoring schemes like zero gravity; the foundation year at LMH and now Cambridge... hopefully this is all just the beginning of a real opening up of the admissions process.

Yes, I think both social media and the ability of students to do their own research on colleges and courses rather than wishing they had someone 'in the know' to guide them has demystified the process and allowed good candidates from less privileged backgrounds see Oxbridge as something far less esoteric. In the case of the more famous schools, it looks to me like a case of more equal treatment looking like discrimination to them.

@LaundryFairy

I agree - they misrepresented it. GCSE grades are contextualised as part of the admissions process, but contextual offers aren’t given out.

That was my take also - the lack of clarity around the offers was unfortunate.

The fact is the majority of children attend state school and until recently the proportion of offers was heavily biased in favour of public schools.

All that's happened is the imbalance has been addressed - not through "easier" A Level offers but outreach programs, contextualising GCSE grades and I believe an overall change in attitude as to where the best candidates might be found (which as I understand it has resulted in changes to the interview process to focus on questions that better identify academic potential as opposed to a high quality of teaching/learning).

I was also a bit about some public schools "only" getting 20 plus offers...

DS's school only has 2 this year and that's pretty normal. They'd be delighted with 5/6 never mind over 20!!

As a proportion of intake it's sounds like with a few exceptions the are still vastly ahead of the state sector in getting kids to Oxbridge.

I guess I just was let wondering what the point of the article was?

. In the case of the more famous schools, it looks to me like a case of more equal treatment looking like discrimination to them

This exactly. Just shows how personal perspective is everything.

@DeRigueurMortis - perhaps to bring on a spate of pearl clutching?

@LaundryFairy

Yes perhaps you're right. It did seem a bit "poor public schools" too me.

The fact of the matter is that the number of children privately educated who get into Oxbridge is vastly disproportionate to children in the state sector - something the article failed to address.

The public school sector still punches way above its weight here when talking proportional admissions.

Statically speaking there are absolutely massively more children in state schools who are still not getting into Oxbridge despite being capable of getting the needed grades.

As such it felt a bit of a hollow read to me.

I also think there's a bit of self fulfilling prophecy about this.

I think historically many state children were put off - worried about being in a minority and a fish out of water. The greater the number of state candidates are successful so it encourages more to apply - because the children know not only is it possible but they'll encounter like minded students with similar experiences.

My dcs comp educated all the way so no skin in the game.

But... to write off all privately-educated dcs as undeserving is daft. Many private schools have ferociously-competitive entrance exams and an extremely high academic standard. Oxbridge should most definitely not be discriminating against extremely clever pupils, wherever they are from. Probably they take fewer onto the “back door” courses which previously were the preserve of those in the know.

It’s also not about the grades - or not solely about the grades, anyway. That’s why there are entrance exams and interviews. If it’s just about grades there may as well just be a lottery for places - a contextualised one to boot.

It's a shame when a really exceptional candidate doesn't get an offer, wherever they went to school. The trouble is in the expectation that x number from Top School will get offers. Yes, the entrance exams can be competitive, and don't allow for average plodders to gain admission, but equally you can bet your life that many will be coached and tutored to buggery to get them through the entrance papers. In such a system, how to distinguish a solid hard worker from the genuinely brilliant? All our DC will have earned top grades in subjects they don't consider themselves to be particularly good at. You really can't extrapolate that much from GCSE grades by themselves.

I really don’t think Oxbridge lets many “really exceptional” candidates slip through their fingers. Quite often I’ve seen admissions people say that there are some stand-out candidates to be snapped up, some obvious rejects, and a whole herd of people who are very clever, would do just fine there, but really are indistinguishable from one another.

I think that with increasing numbers of applicants and encouragement, most candidates (and parents) simply don’t seem to compute that the odds are against them and feel that there’s skulduggery and conspiracies at the heart of the system, when really sheer weight of numbers is their true enemy.

Are Oxbridge colleges now getting substantially more applications from state schools but the same as before or fewer from independents? I can find numbers reflecting the proportions, with an increase from 55.6% to 62.3% state school recently, but not absolute numbers of applicants.

publishes admissions data broken down by gender, domicile, ethnicity, school type etc. [[https://www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/Annual%20Admissions%20Statistical%20Report%202020.pdf]]

They don't break down the state school data to grammar, comprehensive though.

Sorry - typing in a rush, try this link instead:

Oxford annual admissions statistical report

I read the Sunday Times report and thought it was a bit of a non-article, the gist being that some of the big-name independent schools in the country have had fewer offers for Oxbridge over the last few years. No attempt made to analyse why that might be the case - increased numbers of state school students applying? Increased numbers of independent students applying abroad?