Oxbridge 2021: another 6 months of fretting

[DahliaMacNamara]

Will they make the grades? How will grades be awarded anyway? What the hell are Cambridge up to with that nasty little clause?

I wasn’t serious in suggesting it was a clarification. I see it as a clear backtrack. Saying that places would be allocated to offer holder who meet grades ‘on a fair and reasonable basis’ is different from saying ‘if offer holders meet grades then of course they will be admitted’.

Perhaps they do have good lawyers. But their psychologists are woefully limited. What student having fought their way to a Cambridge offer would accept such nonsense with docility?

I don't believe for a second that clause was drawn up by a lawyer. It's so loose, and adds very little in the way of guidance as to 'what will happen'.

“I did find your looking down on the lawyers Cambridge uses quite funny”

Why? I presume you have some sort of legal background but have never worked for a Uni. . We oppose or work for UK Uni lawyers all the time - they are often people we trained or have known for many years. People in the regional firms in Cambridge do spells at the Uni when they want to be in house. It’s a mixed gig. They have a pile of big institution nonsense to deal with Every Single Day and have very little strategic input or possibilities for creativity. It’s an incredibly risk averse environment with frequently contradictory sets of instructions being sent their way. There are specific buttons they try to press when negotiating and specific ones you use to push back. Knowing how they work is a part of my job.

If you think Cambridge farmed this out - I doubt it. Mills and Reeve have long had the account ( since the 80s at least) and wouldn’t have drafted this.

You may also not know that the legal team and the contracts team frequently pass like ships in the night in unis as they may report to different people and the chains of command cause regular conflict. It’s a standard negotiation tactic to say “ if you insist on this change I’ll have to refer it to legal” etc.

NJE, just to change the topic now, did your DC like the Churchill open day? My DD loved it, and now thinks it’s better than her original college (she was pooled). It just seemed so friendly. DD1 at a different college has also said that everyone she has met from there is so nice.

She is still vacillating between Cambridge and UCL, but that open day might have just swung it. She found the UCL offer holders’ day too posh.

All depends on results day of course.

NJW, sorry

Just out of curiosity, have any one else's DC made their firm and insurance choices? DS did it a couple of weeks ago and found it a positive step; making one more thing a bit more certain.

DS is also wondering what we will hear about the A Level grades consultation results.

It was just lovely wasn’t it? Weren’t the team fabulous. And the parents who spoke all seemed very normal (though did you see there was one v funny corporate photo of one dad).

We had no idea the college is so sought-after and I’m glad not to have known sooner. I am so emotionally committed now having stayed out of it all till now and wil, be gutted if anything goes wrong.

Did you notice the senior guy was a “Mr”. Dh reckons he’s someone who never finished the PhD but managed to get a job anyway through sheer commitment to teaching.

What were your thoughts?

In what way was UCL posher? Ds has an offer from them too but isn’t keen on London because pandemic (and I’m not keen because expensive whereas in Cambridge I know where the second hand bike shop is, etc)

Was it “do-you-know-who-I-think-I-am-itus”?

I hadn’t realised how academic it was, but still quite laid back. The senior tutor was lovely, and DD2 reports that the MML DoS was even lovelier. I really liked the way they spoke about the infamous clause, the newness of the building and the higher grades and offer rate head on. So open. A great vibe.

She also found out that a nice friend from her old school is going to Churchill too, which is great.

DD1 and DD2 are already planning when and where they will meet up...

What is your DC studying (only if you feel comfortable saying).

I think it was simply the other offerees. I’m sure it was unfounded.

Her boyfriend is also choosing between Oxford (medicine) and UCL. I’m pleased that they are not choosing based on their relationship. Although I think they are planning to meet at home in London at the four week mark if his workload is feasible.

Well now we know there are about 3 offers for the whole of blooming Cambs this year I guess it’s outing so in the spirit of shutting door after outing horse has prob bolted will pm you.

But yes, they exuded confidence but only in good ways.

Ah ok if other offerees the she IBU perhaps.

@LaundryFairy my DS hasn't made acceptances yet. Partly he is still waiting for Imperial to get back to him, although he is fairly sure he doesn't want to go there, and partly is undecided between Durham and Manchester as insurance.

DD is waiting for offers/rejections from Durham, Edinburgh & St, Andrews. Has offers from Cambridge & Bristol.

This is for English Literature. She thinks that she will probably go for either Edinburgh or Bristol as insurance. Durham is expected (if she gets one) to be as high or higher than Cambridge - so of little value as an insurance choice.

NotJackieWeaver I suppose I should thank you for that lengthy explanation about your expertise (although I'm not clear what your job is), but having experience of law and unis myself I'm just going to dig in and find the attitude towards Cambridge and their legal team funny (if that's ok). Nothing anyone has said has persuaded me to shift my position and so shifting focus to Churchill good/ bad is probably salutary!

Sure. You do you.

That makes sense if DC are still making their minds up / waiting on offers. DS had offers through from Bristol, Durham & Sheffield but was still waiting on UCL. He decided to withdraw his UCL application as it was unlikely to be lower than Oxford and so not a practical insurance choice. Bristol gave him a contextual offer, so it was the obvious choice for insurance.

DD is still waiting for Bristol. Her other offers are all lower than Oxford, though not dramatically so, but at least she's not so far in the position of having to reject any insurance simply because they want more than Oxford. I think she'll probably end up with Durham as her insurance. It's only fractionally lower than Oxford's offer, but there's a little wiggle room on how the grades fall in different subjects. She has her first choice of college - apparently not one of the more popular ones.

That's interesting that your DD's offer from Durham was lower than Oxford @DahliaMacNamara - DS' Durham offer was higher, so that ruled it out for insurance purposes.

@JackieWeaver I hope you are not being serious in assuming that Mills & Reeve are the only solicitors in Cambridge that the uni instructs

@LaundryFairy

That's interesting that your DD's offer from Durham was lower than Oxford *@DahliaMacNamara* - DS' Durham offer was higher, so that ruled it out for insurance purposes.

It will sometimes depend on which subjects they have applied for, and remember different unis have different criteria for contextual offers too.

Yes, her contextual if firmed offer was the same as her (original) intended insurance. It jumps up if she firms Oxford instead. No contextual offers from anywhere else. It's not the clearest system. I don't remember any of this contextual, lower if firmed malarkey when DS was applying a few years ago. It all seemed to be AAA or tough shit, chum.

DD is not going to make decisions on firm/insurance until all her offers (or otherwise) are in. Currently waiting for Durham and one other - although they are both likely to be higher than Oxford. I have no idea what her insurance will be and as she hasn't visited any of them at all (apart from a visit to Oxford in Aug), I have no idea which way she will go. She seems wholly unconcerned at the moment and it is more me who wants decisions to be made so we can start moving forwards. If it were me, I would be withdrawing from the last 2 for making us wait so long 😆 but think she is keen to know if she can in fact get all 5!

Definitely wait - it really isn't any reflection on her application, merely down to how the unis process them differently.