Another path to greatnesses

[chopc]

I woke up around 4:30 this morning and it hit me like a tonne of bricks. Couldn't get back to sleep so thought I will have a go and starting the new thread. Hope the title is not too cheesy

I have just had a look at History at Durham- you get 8.5hrs contact in the first year, 6.5 in the second and 4.5 in the third or something like that. My DS thrives when he is busy and under pressure so it will be a whole new way of learning for him

That won't mean he's not busy and under pressure- I really wouldn't worry about that! The low contact hours in Year 3 is so he can have time to write his dissertation- which takes a lot of time.

The contact hours they list will be the actual timetabled seminars/lectures, not the sum total: he will also have individual meetings with his module tutors to guide him with his essays and (if Durham is similar to other places) with his personal academic tutor. All his tutors will have weekly office hours. There will almost certainly be extra lectures he can attend outside of his timetable, some of them by famous scholars. There will be societies related to his subject and there will be careers fairs.

He will need to be a little bit proactive and find out what there is, he will need to make use of what there is- and above all, he will need to keep any appointments he has made.

Some of the 3rd year students (RG uni, not Durham) who wrote their module essays for me last semester had weekly or even twice-weekly meetings about it which never showed up in their timetables. Others only saw me twice outside of class, to fix a topic and for a check-up. It was about what they felt they needed. This semester that cohort will be writing their dissertations- again, we'll be seeing them very regularly, but on an individual basis.

It is a big adjustment but he will get help to make it.

I haven't got the experience of a child applying for Oxbridge, but my dd had to apply 3 years in a row to get in to drama school (yes, it really is that competitive). The good news is it strengthened her resolve and made her think more about what she wanted out of it rather than what similar friends expected her to want.

8.5 hours contact time is good. History isn’t just about being taught at university. It’s about student research and further reading. Lots of it. This is why grads from universities like Durham are able to access top jobs. They should be self starters and motivated to work without excessive hand holding. It’s interesting that the better paid jobs often go to people who have attended the most academic universities requiring the most self study.

Not looking at university attended has been brought in by some large accountancy firms and law companies in the uk and others who value a level playing field. Having said that the entry tests are onerous. They just want the best people who meet their criteria.

To explain the contact hour thing, this is how my weekly seminar for one specific history module works. Students get a weekly reading list posted online well in advance. They read some of this and then attend a lecture which goes more in depth about their reading.

They then prepare for the seminar, which means doing a lot more reading, but reading actively, pen in hand, preparing questions and passages for discussing in seminar. The seminar is active discussion time. This doesn't mean the tutor isn't working: chairing a discussion like that, making sure interesting arguments are heard and challenged, and that the students are kept engaged (but still reminded of the need for evidence etc) is much harder work than writing a lecture.

Mid-semester they will start writing an essay, either on a fixed topic (Yrs 1 and 2) or on a topic they choose and develop themselves, using not just the reading they have done on the module but also further reading found by themselves. The tutor's role is to supervise, direct them towards good reading, encourage them to think independently but show them how to do this in a scholarly fashion: the student's job is to do that independent reading and thinking.

Once they have submitted their essay they get individual written feedback with suggestions on how to improve but also pointing out the strengths of their work; they are also encouraged to attend an individual feedback meeting. After the end-of-semester exam, again individual written feedback with suggestions on improvement etc.

[quote chopc]@bendmeoverbackwards just had a glance at the Durham thread in TSR and so many applicants who have not yet heard back. I do think it's on the way though ............

in any case Durham requires the same grades as Cambridge to get in so given the uncertainty of this year I think it's important to be excited about the back up option too [/quote]
Thank you @chopc It's difficult as dd is now really excited about Durham. I keep trying to throw Exeter into the conversation and she gives me odd looks!

You are right about the grades, I THINK Durham grades are AAA but as you say things are so uncertain now. In my day, you were generally safe if you narrowly missed your offer but maybe not now.

@Pumpkintopf - just a few thoughts about being a London student - I was also at UCL in the early 90s. I absolutely loved it and had a brilliant time.

This is obviously going back quite a few years but back then all the halls of residence were within walking distance. Some I remember were on Gower Street itself (self catering flats I think). I was in Ramsay Hall which was a 10 min walk away just off Tottenham Court Road, and I also spent time at an intercollegiate hall in Cartwright Gardens, also a 10 min walk in the other direction. The 'far away' hall was Ifor Evans Hall in Camden Town, a short bus ride away. Of course it may well be different now.

In the second year I lived at home for various reasons, but many of my friends shared houses in Zone 2 which is a short tube ride away. Some, depending on budget, managed to share a small flat in town again within walking distance.

Being a student in London was brilliant. Everything is on your doorstep. We used to walk down to Oxford Street for shopping at the weekends, you've got all the wonderful museums and galleries close by. I think we used to get cheap cinema and theatre tickets, can't remember how exactly.

Although UCL is not a campus university, it did sort of feel like it at times. The main building and quad is beautiful and you would always bump into someone you know passing through. My department (Chemistry) was in Gordon Street and it had a very tight knit feel. We had our own common room where lovely ladies would make you tea and toast in the mornings and we would hang out and socialise between lectures.

How does your ds feel about London?

Glad I remembered correctly @bendmeoverbackwards ☺️

Hi everyone. Just catching up. I think it’s natural to feel despondent after a Cambridge rejection. The very nature of an Oxbridge application demands so much more research and involvement from the very outset. At any other uni, it’s just chose your course and send the UCAS off. At Cambridge it’s choose your course; decide between 30 odd colleges; prepare for any admissions tests; SAQs; send in written work; interviews - and then the wait for D-day. You have to become very invested to even navigate the process and it feels so much more personal.

But, you know what ... it’s just one uni in the world and to the vast majority of people it’s totally irrelevant. Many of DS’ teacher went to Oxbridge and he says they’re ok, but nothing spectacular.

I think the main regret for us it’s that it is a beautiful town and not that far away (London). If he gets into Durham, it’s quite a train journey, isn’t it? I don’t think there is direct train from London. For some reason, he’s not keen on Durham anymore and U think this is due to bad press / stereotyping on chat forums. But it’s obvious to me that in any uni in the world, there are fantastic people and those you may prefer to steer clear of. Durham is hardly unique in this! I wish there were real life open days where he could gauge this for himself.

At the moment, his preference would be LSE if he got an offer. He’s found out you can apply to do an extra third year at Berkeley - which would be amazing, (UCL also offer this). I’m just worried, as others are, about the London student experience. But he’s a Londoner anyway, so less adjustment for him than many.

He also has Bath which we’ve never visited, but sounds like a nice city?

@corythatwas thank you very much for taking the time to explain . Much appreciated.

@quest1on why did he choose LSE over UCL? Also have you hear back from LSE? Thought they haven't given out any offers yet

@quest1on bath js a lovely olde worlde city . Don't know much about student life there though

@quest1on we are also in London and the 'just right' distance away from home was one of the factors in dd loving Oxford. Durham IS far away but I've encouraged dd not to be too swayed by distance. Once you're on a train, it doesn't make a huge amount of distance. That said, I haven't looked into trains yet, I thought there was a direct train but maybe I'm wrong.

Just checked - there ARE direct trains from King's Cross, takes 2 hr 55 mins.

In normal years, they would of course do Open Days, it's so hard to choose not being able to get a feel for a place.

@PresentingPercy

Oh. By the way, Kings Cross isn’t a dump now. It’s fairly swish. The gentrification of formerly seedy areas means poorer students are living even further away from areas near the universities. It tends to mean there aren’t student dives like there used to be. No student areas where you will be amongst other students. You live in the wider community. Which can be very appealing if you have good friends you wish to live with.

DD lived in a flat share in Kings Cross these last two years, after graduating. It's actually really nice now! And expensive. Great central position for walking and travelling.

chopc - If he is offered LSE, I think the only reason he might go for that is it’s a bit. smaller and more specialist for his course. But, having said that, he’s never actually been inside either institution... He might feel differently if he did.

bend - under 3 hours to Durham? That’s not too bad. I had visions of needing to change at York and him trundling about with cases.

@quest1on

bend - under 3 hours to Durham? That’s not too bad. I had visions of needing to change at York and him trundling about with cases.

Surrey to Exeter is the same.... so although Durham seems a long way away, in basic hours it isn't. But still too far for DD.

@quest1on once lockdown is lifted he can hopefully have a look at both even to just get a feel. As Bend said UCL has kind of a campus feel. LSE doesn't as it is much smaller

But of course both are great options

@quest1on good to have you with us, not many left on the original thread now. I think you've summarised our dc's situation far more articulately than I ever could.

Durham is a lovely easy journey from Kings Cross, DS (Durham 2nd year student) does the journey regularly in under 3 hours. He lives a few minutes walk from Durham station. So very do'able for us Londoners.

I think with London, if ypu are not from London, you do have consider living and cost of living from Y2. It is more expensive than virtually anywhere else. Yes, UCL does have a campus feel, but you will not live on campus. Years ago students could afford Campden when it too was seedy. It is not now. So you have to look very critically about what your DC and you can actually afford. Many students used to work. that work might have dried up to a large extent.

I do not think you can judge Bath University from the city. The university is Campus. It is not in the city. So lovely buildings are not necessarilty on the student agenda, however much it appeals to parents. Also, how often is your DC actually going to come home? I found not a lot! They get into university life. They are not making journeys home very frequently. So I woud go to the very best university you can for your subject. Getting to London in 3 hours is pretty good. I would not rule it out on distance.

By the way, I'm a big fan of both Bath and Exeter.

London to Durham in less than 3 hours is brilliant! And direct too!
We live in the North and it will take Dd 3 hours to get there (going across and up- it really is quite far up- it’s proper North compared to us) and 3 trains too so I’m envious of the London journey

@MarchingFrogs.. just saw your post. Thank you for the information and link- much appreciated

Gosh Kings cross is lovely now...used to be so grotty but it's a real hub (has central st martins and google there so very fancy) -

DS refused to consider anything based in London as he really wanted to be away from home (!) to get the real uni experience.

Is anyone considering Bristol?

DS for reasons best known to himself (!) swapped out Durham for Exeter at the last minute. He's regretting it now as he isn't that keen on Exeter. I think he wanted a safer insurance one but he didn't really need that as he got offers across the board (apart from the obvious ;-))

Had another chat with him yesterday evening- and although he's disappointed to be so close (the pool thing) he really is fine.

The reality is that although he's a lucky boy to be so very gifted academically he's not a lover of hard work (!) and he really would have been under so much pressure to change that if he was at Cambridge.

Yes he could have done it, but he is keen to enjoy the experience as well as challenging himself academically.

It is me that wanted this for him and I have to just get over myself. It's my dream not his.

@hellsbelles .. he sounds like a really sensible lad