Another path to greatnesses

[chopc]

I woke up around 4:30 this morning and it hit me like a tonne of bricks. Couldn't get back to sleep so thought I will have a go and starting the new thread. Hope the title is not too cheesy

@Pumpkintopf. Hope you don’t mind me joining in but honestly don’t beat yourself up about the FM thing. DD didn’t take FM although it was available and got into Cambridge for PhysNatSci. I honestly think it is more to do with an element of luck, college choice, a good test and interview result. The combination of factors is too subtle to try to pin down and I say this with DS rejected and DD successful for Cambridge. Who knows what makes an application successful in the final analysis! All I can say is that DS was very happy at Warwick and DD would have almost certainly enjoyed Bristol which was her insurance. Don’t in any way blame yourself. Nothing is lost.

Do check if all A levels have to be taken in the same sitting. Some very over subscribed courses insist on this so cramming FM in a further year might not yield anything anyway.

I would hazard a guess that Imperial will like FM too. However I would say his school should have advised re FM. The wording does cover DC who cannot do FM but if it’s offered and they recommend it, it’s a good idea to do it. Bristol is hardly a back number though and it’s a grad student city.

Lovely to take the evening off my phone and come back to this thread

@PresentingPercy was the study looking at best paying jobs for people who studied Medicine and for those who studied Economics?

@Pumpkintopf @Tenpastseven I absolutely wouldn't blame yourself for anything. You sound like nothing but supportive parents. If your DC school advisors didn't tell them, it should have been up to your DC to research the requirements for their chosen degree in their chosen Uni.

I thought my DC had asked for feedback from Cambridge already but he said the rejection letter said feedback will be sent to the referee in due course. Like you I would like feedback specific to his application.

As per TSR some DC from Oxford who have got feedback received their entrance exam scores as well as their interview scores. In previous years feedback has been quite specific whereas in other years they have been way too vague. I am also interested to know. My DC tutor has talked to him about reapplying but we both think he should move on. To be rejected twice would be difficult to get over

The opinions about Durham being a small place is interesting. I feel that at Uni what students need more than anything are good friends. I like the idea of college life in Durham with the sports teams and sense of belonging. Having said this I absolutely loved being a student in London

DC need the same grades to get into Durham as he would have for Cambridge so let's see.

@Crikeyblimey yes we have concerns about the costs of London too. Think we could just about manage it but the London increase to the student loan comes nowhere near does it.

@lockd0wn101 sent me a brilliant PM about the joys of Bristol which I'm sure she'd repeat (or I could forward) if helpful.

@chitchattery thank you so much for that, it has really helped - I had basically convinced myself that this was the thing that had scuppered him and it was my fault for not researching enough/insisting enough. It's good (in a weird way) to hear you can get in without FM even if available and maybe it was something else - the nsaa or the interviews perhaps- and as you say, fine margins. They did pool him so clearly didn't rule him out entirely?

Thanks @PresentingPercy good advice again, I will check that. Unfortunately DS's school isn't particularly clued up when it comes to advising on Oxbridge applications and we had to do most of the work ourselves- which is why I feel bad that we didn't do it particularly well and should have been more alive to the implications of that phrase 'more competitive with FM'.

Hi @chopc you're up late like me . DH isn't feeling very well so I'm in the spare room tonight and having a cheeky surf on MN before sleep.

I definitely agree with you that friends is the most important thing about uni. I hope all our dcs make amazing lifelong friends during their times at uni.

Just a question and it may be different for the college to which your DS applied , but in my DS's case they sent him a form to apply for feedback which had to be countersigned by his school and returned by the 8th Feb otherwise feedback would not be provided.

@Pumpkintopf thank you. Did Cambridge send the form with their rejection letter or did they send it after you asked for feedback?

@chopc - DS replied to the redirection email to ask for feedback, they then sent him the form which both he and the school had to complete and upload via the college's website upload tool.

@Pumpkintopf DD was initially vehemently against reapplying but now is seriously considering reapplying (to C this time not O). I really think she’d have a decent chance but I’m also extremely worried about her getting rejected again and in some ways both of us have got very used to the idea of Durham.

She’s feeling a bit conflicted because she’s on the quite a few Durham group chats and says everyone is really friendly and she feels like she’d feel at home there. She’s made quite a few online friends already and the applicants for her course are already doing regular Zoom calls.

The O feedback DS requested last year (and he specifically asked for aptitude test score too as he had heard unless you did they don't supply it) listed the separate scores he got for each element i.e. interviews as an average score rather than individually, gcses in a contextual basis, written work, contextual basis and a generic sentence re strong application amongst other strong applications. The scores did help us compare his stats to the stats of offer holders from pervious years.

As regards C (of the ones I have seen) write a "fuller" prose style report which actually in the end kind of says less in that it almost says what the applicant put in their application and then has a paragraph sating that whilst it was a good application it was a strong year. So I don't know if they send anything different to the student.

Ooh @mikeandike how/where did she find the Durham group chats? Was it on TSR? I think Dd might like that. Anything to big up her other offers would help atm.

@Pumpkintopf in the rejection email did the college state that they will send feedback to the referee in due course?

@SeasonFinale that's useful to know. So from that feedback were you able to work out how you can improve the application?

My fear is that DS will be out of school and i am unsure how he can improve on this years PS as well as be sharp enough for the written work etc as he wouldn't be discussing his subject with his teachers

I know lord of people do get in at the second attempt though - for people whose students have reapplied , can you share what your DC did in the gap year?

It really would be too heartbreaking to get rejected twice and I think you really need to be ok with that outcome if you were to take a year out

Hi, I think I might have told this anecdote before, but just for the history applicants... DS’ had a lovely history teacher for GCSE who told them how devastated he’d been when he didn’t get an O offer. But he went to Durham and never regretted a day of it - he said, what could be better for a History student than living in a UNESCO castle? He met his wife there, so it was obviously meant to be. Then he did his postgrad at Oxford anyway and now teaches. So same destination, just a more varied route.

Honestly, I don’t think a first degree defines your life. If they really are desperate to be at O or C, they can apply for a masters in a year or two anyway. If they do a postgrad they could be there for many many more years. Or, as they develop their specialisms, they may well gravitate elsewhere - maybe the US, for instance. Who knows?

@quest1on I also think DS should move on. However want to support him should he change his mind about reapplying.

I personally never regarded a post grad from
Oxbridge to be at the same level of prestige as an undergraduate degree from Oxbridge- however given that you need a 1st to be able to apply, I should think differently

@Beetlesand just sent you a PM.

ChopC - I am not sure that the feedback did give any idea of what he could have done different as he was, as most redirected candidates are, an "on paper" ideal candidate and again one of those that people expressed their shock/surprise when he didn't get an offer. His stats were all higher than standard offer save for his negative gcse score so that was never going to change but I do believe that his full set of A*s at A level would have lessened this impact had he reapplied (from what other posters say rather than a formal source). It really is down to the slimmest of margins for many who get in v many who don't.

It is Merton who usually publish very comprehensive details for Oxford as to how they applied criteria (and indeed indicated there had been a change last year to how it was applied than to previous years).

I had to do most of the legwork when DD applied too. She was at a fee paying school who didn’t support Oxbridge applications even though DD was a 6th form scholar. Only 2 girls were “groomed” for Oxbridge and it wasn’t DD. So we had to DIY. It was so difficult and I hadn’t discovered MN then. It’s actually one of the reasons I found MN in the end because the whole experience was unpleasant with the school. The deputy head told DD she (and me) were wasting our time.
However, that’s another story!

Regarding the IFS study: they looked at which universities conferred greater earning power and found it was still RG. They found which subjects conferred greater earning power after 5 years. It really confirmed the obvious that the sciences do better than arts. Regarding economists, they didn’t actually name the higher paying posts but one would assume the top payers would be in London and the well known global firms, merchant banks etc. It was fairly clear that even though students study for the same degree, Economics, outcomes in the job market are university dependent.

For medics this wasn’t so clear cut but of course fewer (No?) alternative jobs to the nhs and a national pay scale will ensure pay levels don’t differ very much. I think where an economist works will matter and it’s possible some economics grads stay in cities where pay is a lot lower than London. The economics grads salaries were an average and almost certainly the top earners would be earning far more than a doctor. However at the bottom end less than half that of a doctor.

@mikeandike where did your dc find the durham group chat? Think it's a dab idea to get to know people before going, would put mind at ease. Have been at work since Tuesday, so today dd and I are going to sit down and look at all her other choices properly and hopefully make a decision. I think its between Durham and a royal Holloway.

I have a feeling that when the stats come out and people see that the offer ratios have been significantly lower this year; plus applicants who did the “retakes” last November are accounting for a significant proportion of places (as they were guaranteed places for 2021 if they met the offer grades), many may be tempted to reapply.

I think I heard that if they te-apply with 3 A* in hand, they are automatically pooled at least?

@par05 Will PM you as well

@Par05 Those 2 unis are streets apart as far as rankings are concerned unless there is some niche subject that I don't know of where Royal Holloway has an uplifted ranking.

Do you mind saying which course and whether there are any career plans where such a choice may have an impact?

I would caution against reapplying. If dc had interviews then on paper they were good enough. Others were deemed better on the day. That could also be the same next year. The interviewers might still think the same.

Gap years are difficult now. What can anyone do to enhance their application? It would be difficult and need a lot of planning. It must also be subject related or no one is interested.

So I would take an alternative. I think some of you are assuming your DCs are very special. I’m sure they are but they really can thrive if they want a post grad at Oxbridge. They will still be in a very prestigious select group. It sounds a bit snobby to say it’s second best. Also not every dc can have “the best” and over-investment in Oxbridge can lead to yet more distress. Being a bit more accepting of events and other universities is the way forward although I know it doesn’t feel like that right now.

Royal Holloway isn’t RG. So others are better. For virtually any subject.