Oxbridge Aspirants 2021-New Thread 4

[Baaaahhhhh]

And we are off:

Thread 3 link: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4070531-Oxbridge-Aspirants-2021-New-Thread-3

Wow! So many offers since I last checked in. Congratulations to all 😊. Thinking about those still waiting who mainly seem to be History 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

And all the happy birthdays @NiamCinnOir!

Does that mean on the History table that out of 50 applicants with a top score, only 26 were taken, yet 3 who got 17 marks did get an offer?

The HAT surely sorts the wheat from the chaff and to contextualise it seems, actually, madness.

@IrmaFayLear

Does that mean on the History table that out of 50 applicants with a top score, only 26 were taken, yet 3 who got 17 marks did get an offer?

The HAT surely sorts the wheat from the chaff and to contextualise it seems, actually, madness.

I'm not so sure.

The HAT is just part of the selection process along with PS's, predicted grades, GCSE grades and interview performance.

Remember what Oxbridge is looking for above all else is potential.

It stands to reason that applicants who've had a first rate education and been fully "prepped" will score better on the HAT than those who have not.

It's the same principle as looking at GCSE's and predicted grades in context.

A HAT score of 17 from an applicant coming from a disadvantaged educational background could still demonstrate huge potential when combined with the quality of their PS, a cracking interview and actual/predicted grades that were/are outstanding in the context of their educational/life opportunities.

Having the HAT score being the sole factor that separates the wheat from the chaff would utterly undermine efforts to be more inclusive.

The HAT mark only contributes 20-30% to the final score at offer stage, along with GCSEs, submitted written work and interviews (sometimes several) so it's only part of the picture.

I'm such an idiot. I've really left this all to (autistic/dyslexic) DS. He's got an interview. And he already has the required grades (sat his A levels early) but we have completely missed the mark for choral scholarships. (I think he'd have been in with a chance as he has already worked professionally etc). Can anyone reassure me about performance and music making opportunities (post Covid obviously). Can he continue making music (and singing) without being tied to four services a week? (I realize this is massively jumping the gun. He has an interview. Not a place. But he can't envisage going anywhere else, so if he isn't successful this year, he'll apply for 2022 entry.). Thank you.

DD is still waiting for Worcester Maths and Philosophy - not many Worcester or Maths interview offers on the spreadsheet yet, and they were 3rd-7 th Dec on last years version so hopefully will hear next week. Ive ordered a couple of tablet styluses from Amazon in case she gets one, and checked that Miro works OK on my Android tablet.

Gosh this thread moved fast, congratulations to everyone who has an interview and good luck to those still waiting.

@Decorhate Ds hasn't actually received his interview invite yet but has had an email from the college saying they are finalising their lists but he is on there and didn't want him to have to wait any longer. His admissions test results are not out until Monday so we were not expecting to hear before then but it was lovely to get the email.

Some colleges are listing which subjects they have invited to interview but others don't.

@beethecrackon24995 Gonville and Caius is just called Caius (keys) they have their own YouTube channel and they all just call it Caius. It is so beautiful, it was on Ds's short list of colleges. I can see why people love it.

Thank you @Jalfrezi and @Revengeofthepangolins

@MidLifeCrisis007 sorry if stupid question but could you explain the contextualised thing to me? I missed the earlier discussion about it.

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]**@MidLifeCrisis007 sorry if stupid question but could you explain the contextualised thing to me? I missed the earlier discussion about it.[/quote]
I don't know how it works exactly but there seems to be a presumption that if you go to a good school you were fully prepped on the Mongol Empire beforehand so you get docked lots of marks.

Well that's the reality of it anyway.

MidLifeCrisis007 it's absolutely fair to say that some schools help far more with aptitude prep than others. So, staff mark practice papers and give guidance etc months ahead. Other schools lack the expertise to offer any help. Years ago - soon after the HAT was introduced - the Head of History at Oxford said to me that of course they looked at the HAT in context, in the round table discussions, so I guess this early contextualisation is just formalising that recognition that help available varies widely. It seems utterly fair, especially when well known HTs tell Oxford that if Oxford wants History applicants to stand on their head at interview then that's exactly what his school will coach its pupils to do.

I don’t think anyone knows the exact method. Gcse scores (number of Astars) are apparently changed into a score by comparing the candidate’s results to the average score at your school, presumably using a centrally supplied school score, such that if you have exactly the average of your school you’d score zero. I guess that means that a girl from St Paul’s girls with nine 9s and one 7 gets a negative score for GCSEs.

Leaving aside whether it should be, I am puzzled how mechanically the school gcse scores are used to contextualise the Hat scores.

Maybe someone knows ?

@Chocomel

I'm such an idiot. I've really left this all to (autistic/dyslexic) DS. He's got an interview. And he already has the required grades (sat his A levels early) but we have completely missed the mark for choral scholarships. (I think he'd have been in with a chance as he has already worked professionally etc). Can anyone reassure me about performance and music making opportunities (post Covid obviously). Can he continue making music (and singing) without being tied to four services a week? (I realize this is massively jumping the gun. He has an interview. Not a place. But he can't envisage going anywhere else, so if he isn't successful this year, he'll apply for 2022 entry.). Thank you.

@Chocomel Please don't worry! If your DS is applying to Oxford, there are loads of music opportunities both singing and others that are wide open to all students. The only chapel choirs he's missed out on are the choral foundations (Christchurch, Magdalen and New College) and possibly 2 or 3 others also with high commitments. All the rest recruit some or all of their members once term starts. Good singers get known and asked to help out all over the place.

Good luck for his interview.

If it's Cambridge he's applying to, the choral scholarship applications are done later, after offers come out.

I sang in a chapel choir (not a 'well known brand') for several years at Oxbridge on the back of a brief audition with the organ scholar at the start of the autumn term.

Yes, there were some choral scholars who were the 'backbone' of the choir, but the rest of us were enthusiastic volunteers.

Commitments vary by college, and certainly 'in my day' it was possible to shop around - we had members from other colleges, in particular from the 'big name brands' who were not scholars and wanted somewhere with a reasonable standard but not the same level of commitment.

I’ve no skin in the game here, but it’s ridiculous to assume that a private-school candidate is less able than someone from a “highlighted” school or postcode. Fair enough, it could be the case that some applicants think, Oh, goody, a piece about the Mongols, we at St Ponsonby’s know all about that, but still talent should be able to be identified. Automatically docking or adding points seems a very blunt tool.

I am surprised that they would admit people who had less than half the HAT scores of others. The odd one who had blown it, maybe, but to routinely elevate people with low scores is grossly unfair.

@IrmaFayLear

I’ve no skin in the game here, but it’s ridiculous to assume that a private-school candidate is less able than someone from a “highlighted” school or postcode. Fair enough, it could be the case that some applicants think, Oh, goody, a piece about the Mongols, we at St Ponsonby’s know all about that, but still talent should be able to be identified. Automatically docking or adding points seems a very blunt tool.

I am surprised that they would admit people who had less than half the HAT scores of others. The odd one who had blown it, maybe, but to routinely elevate people with low scores is grossly unfair.

This is a good article explaining more about access at Oxford

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jan/19/how-oxford-university-made-admissions-fairer

I think if someone had scored low on the ladmissions test but their interview was then amazing they could get an offer?

It was confirmed on an Oxford ‘ask the tutor’ that my Son attended, the HAT is NOT contextualised. It’s format changed (last year or this year?). GCSE’s are contextualised by school. Looking at the context of each applicants UCAS form, doesn’t mean they contextualise their HAT.

Cambridge has HAA at interview and it specifically states marks will not be awarded for prior knowledge. They are particularly interested in the analytical skills.

And yes, potentially an applicant could have great GCSE’s, amazing written work and a first rate interview. High marks in all those could make up for a low HAT mark.

And knowing any prior knowledge of the period presented in the HAT, wouldn’t help you at all. Quite the opposite, bringing in prior knowledge to your essay would lose you marks.

Then I do wonder how HAT could be contextualised?

It’s not contextualised.

Hi, just checking in - congratulations on all the the interviews offered in the last few days and fingers crossed for the DC’s still waiting.

On the contextualisation issue, I think it’s fair that students from selective schools (independent or state) should have their GCSEs contextualised. But from what I can see (DS and other DC at selective schools) there is no additional help with admission tests at all. How can schools do this across multiple subjects? They just tell them to download past papers and work through them.

I did stumble across some 2018 admissions data for DS’ subject (which no longer has an admissions test) and was surprised that there was no rhyme and reason to who was offered a place on the evidence of the admissions test and who was not, No wonder they did away with it. Genuinely, students with scores of ‘4’ were offered places over others with scores of 24 (or something like that - the differences were very significant anyway).

Surely, a uni like Oxford can develop an admissions text that is ‘prep / tutor proof?’ Some of the schools around me that have very selective entry have done just this. For instance, there is a group of about 12 schools which make up the Girls School Consortium in London - they used to have the typical entrance test format (essay, VR / NVR, maths paper, etc), but realised that girls were being tutored within an inch of their lives doing endless papers etc. So, in the interests of widening participation and the general mental health of the Year 6s, now its just one paper - all multi- choice - and its designed to test underlying ability rather than learned ability in the same way as the CAT tests they do routinely at school with no preparation required. Even St Paul’s Girls do their own kind of adaptive reasoning test on computers in the first selection wave (if you are getting questions right the questions get increasingly harder). From about 1000 applicants every year, they deselect about 500 through this computer test. Then the next stage (they are in there all day)! is a maths paper and an English paper (which they can prepare for); but also some kind of random group work exercise which could be absolutely anything, as well as another paper which you can’t prepare for in any way (DD had to design a contraption or something to fit under a ship for the purposes of smuggling). Also there was something about the DNA of chillies, if I remember. Then, based on this, they ask 200 back for interviews for 100 places and in the interviews they give them some random object or picture to talk about (among other things). They were asking DD about Arabic architecture fgs and she was 10!

Sorry to divert, but I’m sure Oxford could design tests that it’s not possible to prep for as schools do this all the time for selection purposes.