Oxford and Cambridge current students discussion thread

[sandybayley]

Starting a new one as we filled it up!

Can't believe DS1 will be home in 2 weeks. Must remember to adjust the Ocado shop for when he's back. I suspect we may end up with a few days of his favourite meals 😊

DS wouldn't have a clue what type of school his college friends went to, and it wouldn't dawn on him to ask. He can usually remember what subject they are doing (because that information is interesting to him) and sometimes knows what country they live in (again because he finds this interesting, and also because time zones need to be taken into account if meeting for an online social event).

Thanks for the kind messages upthread about my worries about DS. Alas, things are getting worse and worse. He is now behind by 19 lectures, says he often gets every single question wrong on an examples paper, and seriously wonders about switching course and/or university because he is "too thick" for the course.

I more or less forced him to email his tutor saying all this rather than continuing to suffer in silence. He has also finally alerted the college to his dyslexia so a report is about to be pinged round to all the relevant people. I really do hope that that will help.

At the moment he feels that there is no point in being in Cambridge, even in non-covid times, because he has to work so hard to vaguely keep up that he has absolutely no time for anything else.

It's pretty heartbreaking to see him so crushed and hopeless.

@PantTwizzler so sorry to hear that he has lost his confidence. It's good that he has notified the college about his dyslexia. If he is 19 lectures behind then (depending on the subject) the work set for the supervisions might be difficult for him to attempt, which would make him feel even worse.

I’m sorry he’s having such a hard time, PantTwizzler, I missed your post upthread.
He’s not ‘thick’ , he wouldn’t have got a place if he was, but it is an intense course even without dyslexia. And the exams (weirdly enough just called ‘exams’) will contain questions everyone finds difficult.

Hopefully now they know about his dyslexia he'll get some more support. But if he's not able to get any sort of work-life balance there are other options. One of DDs first year pals found it a bit too much but also realised that she much preferred one of the branches of engineering to the others. So she got a place at another uni to do that instead and last I heard was thriving. It's probably premature to raise anything like that but it might at some point help him to know he doesn't have to stay if it's not right for him iyswim.

@PantTwizzler - sorry to hear he's still finding it so hard. It's rubbish and he hasn't even got the 'fun' stuff to make up for it. It's distressing to see your child struggling but is it any compensation that you are there to help and support him and he's not struggling alone?

@CinnamonJellyBeans - 😉 - that makes much more sense. I'm equally guilty of mishearing and misunderstanding stuff that DS1 tells me. Thanks for sharing your clarification. It did sound seriously weird...

I think my DS is like Ironoaks's - he has no idea where people went to school or what type of school that might be. He can just about manage where someone might come from (though in broad terms...'the Midlands' 'Devon', 'Italy' ). I think the only time anyone has asked what school he went to was at interview when he was wearing his school tie.

Thanks for the correction @CinnamonJellyBeans, v gracious. Makes much more sense now!
Like @mutterphore, DD1 (C) experience is of being in a minority as privately educated. Thankfully her DoS has kept any views he has on her educational background firmly to himself.
@PantTwizzler, your poor DS; can he pluck up the courage to talk to a supo partner, college parent or his tutor? Is the problem really global do you think, or one thorny topic? As others have said, he is anything but thick. Hope some support and help /reassurance is forthcoming .

Thanks for clarifying things CJB. We all make mistakes and the wisest people admit to theirs - thus indicating further their wisdom!!

PantTwizzler, I'm very sorry to hear about your DS. Now he's going to let everyone know about his dyslexia, this should initiate more understanding and hopefully concessions with his supervisors. They should be motivated to make things work better for him because they selected him and know his potential.

Can he ask for time extensions to completing work and watching lectures? If he has a report about his dyslexia, then this ought to be possible. Can he talk to his DOS or tutor and get some support and reassurance that lots of students feel similarly to him and he shouldn't doubt himself.

His degree subject is notoriously intense and you'd expect that most students would start off feeling overwhelmed and then gradually, across 3 to 4 years, settle into things better. I really hope he can hear from second and third years that this is entirely normal and not to worry.

Right now has got to be the hardest time - midterm, of the second term of the first year, with the additional challenges of the pandemic. Don't let him judge the entire degree on how he feels right now. He needs to hear all of this from his mentors and peers however and I hope he gets their input soon.

If it helps, I absolutely hated the second term of my first year of a different degree - and almost swopped course or dropped out at that point but instead, decided to carry on. Fast forward 40 years and I now feel indebted to my degree course and tutor (this was at O) for pushing me so hard and believing in me.

Your DS also needs to get some positive feedback from his DOS/tutor so he too can see that he's more than capable. He probably just needs to take a bit of a breather and some days off - if this is at all possible.

Oh @PantTwizzler, I’m so sorry to hear that your DS is spiralling down. As others have said, I think we can discard “too thick” as an explanation. Far more likely is that remote learning is not working for him. It’s hard for everyone, particularly so for those who are missing contact hours and, as you have hinted earlier, even harder for those with dyslexia whose mode of learning is ill suited to remote learning. I bet he’s being hard on himself when he says he wouldn’t enjoy C even with no pandemic, because what he’s not factoring in is the fact that he’d be at the engineering department most of the day, with lecturers, postgrads, peers all able to teach, coach, share frustrations etc.

So that’s the explanation, what’s the solution? As @sandybayley has said, it’s good that he’s at home and able to get emotional support from you. I wonder if you can provide more practical support too? The PantTwizzler Academy is renowned (on this corner of MN certainly) for its academic success, so you clearly have an excellent grounding in maths and science yourself. If you could make the time, maybe you could act as a study buddy to him on some subjects? This might sound crazy but in my experience it can work. A recent example: DS phoned me up last week (slightly) panicking that he had spent hours on a question sheet and was stuck. I told him I couldn’t help immediately as this was a branch of numerical maths I hadn’t even heard of, I but asked him to talk me through what he already knew and this in of itself was useful. I then spent an hour watching YouTube videos (there are some really good ones on even the most esoteric of subjects) and was able to pinpoint the “missing link” that was causing him problems. We had a Zoom call, went through his questions and he dismissed me with a “thanks Mum, the rest is easy now” and off he went. Some might say this is excessive helicopter parenting; I would defend myself by saying I’m providing only a fraction of what he should would be getting if education were happening normally. So maybe you could try that approach?

Snap, I'm in awe of your mathematical ability and that of others on here! Totally support the 'study buddy mum' idea too - parenting at its best.

@CinnamonJellyBeans mystery solved! Thank you for clarifying.

PantTwizzler I'm so sorry to hear of your DS's struggles - you have had good advice and I don't have anything much to add - except is there a Pastoral service that might help? Or a second year who might be able to offer some moral support.
Hugs all round

@PantTwizzler I'm sorry to hear about your DS. To echo everyone else, of course it's not because he's 'thick'. I hope he'll get the support and help he needs and that things start to look up.

Something I was saying to D1 as she was agonising over her latest essay is the lack of contact with others on her course being a factor. In normal times, they would be coming out of lectures or tutorials, going for coffee, talking it over with their friends. Seems worse when you're struggling with things on your own at home. And of course, nothing else to think about, no other activities or social life to distract and give a bit of perspective.

A study buddy doesn't even have to be going the same subject. DD's maths is a little rusty these days, but she's found that chemists are extremely helpful when it comes to spotting mistakes when rearranging equations.

Going = doing

Nothing further to add to all the above @PantTwizzler other than I too am so sorry your poor DS is struggling at this point. I hope his DoS steps in swiftly to reassure him.

You are all very kind and generous and I apologise again for wasting your time.

@PantTwizzler, we woke up to several missed calls @5am, which she texted was an "essay crisis". We have also had the "why did I come here", "I spent all those years trying to get in and all I do is study". Her sister grassed her up and told us she is 3 weeks behind on lectures (but I haven't said anything). I would say 1/3 essays are done on time. It will be even harder for your son, as he is not on site.

If you read the camfess page on fb, it looks like many students are in the same boat. I am shocked to see these poor kids being worked like pit ponies. It seems to be the norm and a consequence of the short terms. It is sad as a parent to see them running even faster up a downwards escalator.

Thank you again for your kind and undeserved words everyone.

@PantTwizzler your poor DS. I'm glad that the report is going around and hope that it is the start of proper support. I think a lot of them feel like they are clinging on by their fingernails, especially early on, but then they evolve a way of keeping up with things. It is especially hard for those in their first year, so hats off to those who are supporting their fresher DC.

I offered to help an old school friend who works at a uni in the NW of England. I get on pretty well with her DC and her DH - she is quite prickly herself. They come and stay with us normally once a year. Her DS1 is in year 12. He has been diagnosed with ADD (he is definitely not hyperactive). He is a bright kid, but mother keeps comparing him to my DDs, which is completely unreasonable as I haven't parented her DSs . She is stressed as anything as he is meant to be sorting out uni applications (why? why? why? - my y12 students are nowhere near that point yet) so we had a chat over Zoom today. He thinks he wants to apply for medicine (OMG, I can't think of anyone less suited - his people skills are really lacking, he is emotionally immature & mother does everything for him) but he is interested in neuro science & psychology. Mother thinks he is C material. He is studying 3 sciences & Maths for A level. I don't want to piss on his plans, but he seemed clueless about BMAT. Any words of wisdom collective MNers?

From what you describe he doesn't stand much of a chance of getting med school offers. Grades aren't enough.
I think I'd try to enthuse about how interesting neuroscience and psychology sound, maybe it would be possible to find a virtual tour or suchlike for (non clinical) courses in those areas? While perhaps if opportunity arises drop in some of the downsides of medicine. If I'd had any thought of taking that route, I'd have been put off by my big brother ruefully mentioning things like being hit over the head with a bottle by a drunk, when he was doing his junior dr A&E stint ... twice in the same night. And by his friend, super bright, went all the way through med school but then when it came down to doing it for real simply couldn't make the decisions under pressure.

Gosh I'd leave well alone Malbecfan. If the DS wants to try for Cambridge Medicine then let the tutors sort it out. It may just be that they see something in him which would benefit the medical world. If not, tant pis. If you think of the DC at school who've got into Cambridge for Medicine over the past ten years or so, they've not all been obviously bursting with people skills. Encouraging is one thing, but discouraging another person's DC is quite another, and should be done only in extremis.

Not sure neuroscience is an easy option either! Maybe he will be better with a year out and a rest and rethink.

@Malbecfan - you sound very kind hearted and a good friend. IMO you're doing this poor child (and his mother) no favours to encourage him on a path which he's almost certainly not suited to. I wonder if there is a way to make him aware of why he's not suited? Always better to help people work it out for themselves than tell them outright?

@Malbecfan presumably there are past papers to practise with?
They also need to do some sort of relevant work experience — pretty tricky in times like these, but volunteers seem to be needed at vaccination centres, for example. Maybe such experiences might be enough to put the boy off?! Otherwise maybe he will flourish in academic medicine, or pathology... it’s not a career I’d be encouraging my DC into but I am a very jaded medical spouse...

Otherwise maybe he will flourish in academic medicine, or pathology...
Yes, but in order to get to that destination via Medicine and qualifying as a doctor (as opposed to going down the Neuroscience as an academic subject route) , he will have to be inflicted on a good many unfortunate real live sick people on the way.

I would have a gentle probe as to whether his interest is actually in the treatment and care of patients with particular problems in the neuro line, or the study of neuroscience. Because although it sounds like he may not get in anywhere for Medicine anyway, it may be that going through the process of becoming a doctor isn't actually the best path for him to take in the first place.