Oxford and Cambridge current students discussion thread

[sandybayley]

Starting a new one as we filled it up!

Can't believe DS1 will be home in 2 weeks. Must remember to adjust the Ocado shop for when he's back. I suspect we may end up with a few days of his favourite meals 😊

Cross post with sandybayley. It's not an opinion thing sandy, it's their legal status!

CJB it rather sounds as though she's as fascinated by the other half's yachts as they are by her impoverished schooling....

Also - am I being very stupid here? - surely there are a myriad of reasons why one might need TWO yachts. For example if one of them developed a technical fault just as you were setting off. Or if one partner wanted to go east and the other west. Or... (well, just lots of reasons, in the same way that I own TWO Dysons).

Like I said - the stats say state and grammar , but the grammar school kids come from paying grammar schools. So far including herself, she knows four freshers who got a free education.

She says people don't boast about their family's wealth, but it just comes up in conversation and also a lot come from Hampstead Heath and South Ken, so it's obvious they're minted! All the other students are really nice and there's no snobbery. Some of the students come from a long, long line of family attending that college and share their name with young men on the Roll of Honour from both wars, which is quite profound.

Two Dysons? That's just showing off!

Incorrrect CJB. The fee paying grammar school students such as those from Manchester Grammar or RGS Guildford are included in the independent stats and the students from the maintained sector grammars are included in the state/ grammar stats. There's no discretion available to be exercised by Oxford and Cambridge on that one.

I have a Henry. He's a loyal servant, sucks up anything, but does get lost going through doors.

Ypur DD just seems to have come across the Manchester/ RGS bunch rather than the Henrietta Barnett/ Tiffin bunch.

It's highly likely that many, many, many current students will have relatives named on Rolls of Honour in their home towns and villages around the country, which I don't see is any less profound. I can't quite see why a loss of a young man's life is more profound because he attended Oxford or Cambridge.

You cannot beat a Henry.

GBS, I am now wondering where all these state school students are. There's literally four UK state students. She's very clear about this and knows all the fee-paying schools from instagram.

You must have the patience of a saint OYBBK. Every time I'm required to engage with a Henry it ends in a massive bout of bad temper on my part, if not actual tears.

CJB very obviously your DD has her facts wrong. No Cambridge college has only four students from the state sector in its 2020 intake, even the flashiest one.

Hmmmm...maybe so. When it comes up again I will ask, but she was absolutely mystified as to the whereabouts of the other state school kids. I mean it's not like there's a reverse snobbery thing going on, with people proudly declaring they come from state schools, but the subject of school and sixth from often comes up, as a lot of the independent school kids are all networked long before they get to Oxbridge.

I do get quite cross with Henry Goodbye. It would be fine if he didn't dawdle so much. But he's impossible to kill off. I fear my great grandchildren might be stuck with him.

This is a quote from @CinnamonJellyBeans:

"We worked out that being relatively poor and state school would actually work to our advantage; if you have to take some paupers at least they should be brainy."

Are you seriously calling me and my family paupers? You are clearly either deluded or being deliberately goading. Paupers are people who struggle to make ends meet. I teach kids who are currently reliant on food parcels from local businesses. Their parents work but the nature of their jobs is insecure, they are on NMW or they are on zero-hours contracts. They cannot afford to hire a dinghy, let alone go on a yacht. By contrast, we provide for our family by being careful. If an experienced teacher is "a pauper" then there is something very very wrong with the system in this country, or perhaps with people who voted the government in.

Researching schools from Instagram is hardly top-notch research.

Why not look at websites like OFSTED (state schools) or ISI (private schools)? You can then work out which school falls into each category. Where I grew up had STATE grammar schools. You paid NOTHING to go to them. Where I live now has some STATE grammar schools. The last time we paid for our DDs' education was when they were at a private day nursery. If you want to go on telling people rubbish, fine but at least check your facts first. Please do not be so condescending to those of us trying to do an honest day's work on a salary that in real terms has not increased since 2011.

Relatively speaking: "pauper". It was tongue in cheek and I think you actually know that.

There are state grammars in Northern Ireland, Bucks, Kent and at least one London borough, as well as scattered one-off others. They all resisted the push from government to go comprehensive. The majority of schools went comp under an education secretary called... Margaret Thatcher (strange but true!).

We’ve had our Henry for nearly 25 years. They are indestructible.

@goodbyestranger - I was being a bit sarcastic 😉

I am very clear that grammar schools are state schools. The independent schools that have grammar in the title clearly aren't state schools and would not be classed as such in admissions stars. The only caveat I'd add is that clearly not all grammars are the same. The ones round by us (Tiffins etc) are super-selective and attract candidates from families who are very motivated to prepare well in advance and often have the resources to do so. The Kent grammars (where DBIL lives) are more inclusive - fingers crossed DNephew is going to one in September.

Quite right sandy there's a very wide spectrum. When I said the leading grammars were piling resources into broadening access it was the QEB's etc that I was talking about. The superselectives have an issue all of their own.

CJB remember that when you've met one private school educated student, you've met ....one private school educated student and they're all very different to each other.

DS1 and DS2 - brought up from the start by me - their single mum - were on means-tested bursaries at their private school and we were never able to afford things like foreign family holidays when they were growing up, let alone own a yacht or two and neither has ever even been on a plane or travelled ....and we don't even own a Dyson (LOL!).

Most of the other students each of them has met at their colleges, have been state school educated and lots are from very deprived areas. DS1 (C) particularly has had to listen to quite a lot of misguided ideas about 'posh private school students' that bear no relation to his own background and his own DOS making regular 'put downs' about private schooling. He also overheard a group of first years talking about the single Etonian at his college and people were saying "...and I'm surprised to see the Etonian seemed fairly normal actually! ", as if just because the boy was from Eton, he'd be a different 'species' when of course lots of Etonians are also on means tested bursaries too. You just never really know about people's origins unless they feel some need to tell you.

At DS1's college, either no one has mentioned coming from 'wealth' or instead has made a big deal of 'regularly experiencing knife crime right outside their door at home' and how they don't want Cambridge to 'change' them and want to remain faithful to their roots. If there's any 'prejudice' it's been against private school students not the vast vast majority who are state schooled - and of course there are so many different varieties of state school too, in any case.

I just think it's a shame that any student makes assumptions at all and puts any one group into a special category, when each is unique and anyone who needs to discuss their two yachts or alternatively, their knife crime neighbourhood is missing the point of seizing the opportunity to mix with an eclectic bunch of bright minds, regardless of financial circumstances.

I withdrew my previous message at the request of CJB because I named the college. This was what I said:
On the subject of This College In Cambridge it is certainly not the case that all the freshers are private school educated. How would any one person know the entire cohort in any case? And those who are privately educated are very likely not all conspicuously loaded. As for the implication that they're all massively privileged because they have family members who went there... yes, but plenty of said families have offspring who apply but don't get in I know several such candidates.

Just do a search for eg Manchester Grammar if you need proof that Cambridge know the status of a school accurately rather than relying on its historical name, cinnamon.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/undergraduateadmissionssbyapplyycentre20199_cycle.pdf

And this has the stats for percent private at each oxbridge college

thetab.com/uk/2019/10/04/the-oxbridge-colleges-admitting-the-most-private-school-kids-127451?cmpredirect

Thank you Errol the Dragon. It definitely looks like DD is wrong about the number of state school students. I will ask her when she comes home.

However, I must reiterate: there is no snobbery, reverse or otherwise in the student body. People are friendly and accepting and she has made lots of friends. I did worry that she would feel out of her depth, but that is not the case at all.

I'm an idiot - I've just searched our message history for our whatsapp chats for "state school". It's not her college with 4 state freshers - it's her subject. That's where I got 4 from. I can only apologise for being such an idiot.

Feel free to tell me off. What an idiot I am. I am so sorry for all the confusion. They say "wise men have fools for sons". I can only assume the reverse is also true.