Irish Universities?

[Middersweekly]

Is anyone else’s DC planning on applying to an Irish university or has anyone been to an Irish university/college? We live in the EU not UK so technically an EU university would be better from a finance point of view. There seems to be some good universities in Dublin such has Trinity College. Would love to hear people’s experiences.

@Pomegranatemolasses

You can apply for different courses at the same university. Our leaving cert system is so different to A levels. Essentially, students are allocated points for each subject. Places are awarded based on how many points you achieve in your leaving cert exam.

The points set for each course are totally determined by demand each year. This has been a very strange year, no exams and ultimately points determined by schools, which are far higher than those normally achieved by students.

Because of this, the points required for entrance to certain courses has risen hugely, some by as much as 60 points (normal differential year on year would be well below 10).

Trinity has a good reputation for law, UCD is good for engineering.

Yes but this isn't relevant for overseas / EU students, not studying for the Leaving Cert.

Op, just go by the information for non-Irish students applying to Irish universities, on each university website.

I will try and find the points required for the other Univerities mentioned such as Maynooth, Waterford Institute, TUC, Griffith College Dublin, and Carlow.

@Middersweekly there is literally NO equivalence in the institutions you mention there. This isn't to denigrate or praise any in particular, just that it's horses for courses.

Trinity (TCD) has a super reputation for Law, but it challenging to get a place. Maynooth (MU) has an excellent law department with a different approach to TCD. It's a very supportive environment too.

The institutes of technology (IoT) tend to be less academic & more vocational. They can be an excellent choice but you need to know your DC eg how academic are they? How well will this suit them? This is a bit snobby, and is changing, but the more academic students go to universities, not IoTs. However, often IoTs offer courses that can't be done anywhere else eg lab technician courses or art... but Law definitely doesn't fall into that category.

Griffith College is a private college so an entirely different system. Private colleges fulfil a role, but I wouldn't select it for a DC in lieu of a state university. Definitely not for Law.

You need to do a lot more research, which brings me to my final point. You need to visit the universities & area around them, and get a feel for them. But this will be challenging during Covid. Virtual open days are being offered but I don't think they are suitable for those overseas - it's just too big a decision.

@SeasonFinale

I think you have missed the point that she will need to checked whether a law degree from Ireland would allow her to go on to the LPC/SQE in England or Wales if that is her ultimate intention.

Also just because she was born in the UK does not mean she is automatically entitled to apply for student finance over here.

Let her investigate her choices between engineering and law and and also where she should study law if she wants to actually practice it rather than just take it as an academic subject where she might go but I suggest you ascertain her fee position quite quickly.

Excellent points here.

why the courses were 4 years long for an undergraduate Honors degree.

Not all. Probably still, not most.

In MU, most Arts / Humanities programmes are 3 years, UCC & NUIG the same.

3 year degrees are still v common. 4 year degrees (eg UL) often include work placement or overseas study blocks.

So if you do economics at ucd, is it only three years but at trinity it's four. But you've done the groundwork for a masters?

@MuserOwl

So if you do economics at ucd, is it only three years but at trinity it's four. But you've done the groundwork for a masters?

No it doesn't really work like that.

The programmes are structured differently, that's all.

You'll have the exact same entitlement & level of preparedness to take on a Masters course, if you want to.

I'd usually encourage students to move sideways with a Masters eg pick an spliced area linked to their primary degree, rather than a degree & Masters in Economics unless you are aiming to work in academia.

What really matters is the quality of the course, how well-regarded it is. Word of mouth & checking with the department of the university & their staff, is important.

Secondly, how well the student applies themselves & succeeds at the primary degree level - that's what puts you ahead at masters level.

*applied area, not spliced!

@EarringsandLipstick

I am Irish. Studied at UCC. Everyone’s experience will be different but most of the students I know from the Cork/Kerry area do tend to go to UCC or Limerick. If you live in Cork city or commuter belt, it is unusual not to stay living at home. There is an affordability issue due to the lack of student loans which can hinder people applying for courses further afield because parents can’t afford the rent.

I can only comment on the experiences of friends & family. Family member from Kerry who went to Dublin found the weekends lonely at first.

This does not mean that you won’t make friends & have a great time. One of my groups of friends all went to the same secondary school so once so made friends with one I got to know the whole group as well.

I want her to go to trinity because that's her first choice and it would really just give her such a lift, but as a single parent (i know I can apply for a susi grant) the extra year of fees makes me pause for thought. I know I need to look in to it more.

Oh yeh, another thing, as a single parent, I don't know any movers and shakers. If my dd has to do a placement as a part of her fourth year that would be a nightmare for her/me. I hate that nonsense. Her three placements when she was in transition year. I found two of them and the third, I told her to try and sort it out herself. She did not sort anything out! So she enjoyed a week in bed watching netflix, I gave the school my number, knowing that nobody would be put through unless they provided their pps number. She is older now but I cannot imagine having to find a placement to complete a part of your degree being anything other than stress for me!!

Apologies for that tangent.

@EarringsandLipstick Thankyou, it helps to have someone advise with first hand experience of the universities and system therein.
As for visiting the universities in question. This may be possible next year if things calm down re-Covid. In the meantime we will sign up for virtual open days.
I didn’t realise Griffith College was private. I would rather go down the state university route. I have no bias towards universities or institutes. DD will have to work out which course she feels is the best fit for her and place her options accordingly.
Good to know there are 3 year honors courses available also.
Will keep researching...I’m trying to take some of the leg work away from DD as she has much to do the next few months. As previously mentioned she’ll apply elsewhere in the EU also.

I'd just like to do my usual and point out that there isn't a UK education system, theres a Scottish one and an rUK one, the exams are different, uni courses different and student funding different in Scotland. I know people find it pedantic when I do this but it's important to us! I just checked DS1s points on the equivalency tariff and they came to over 600, i think Scottish students who do advanced Highers come out of it well, sadly hardly any Scottish students apply out of Scotland due to fee status.

Brexit is a real pain for students, so many interesting options closed off, There's a Masters course in Utrecht that would have suited DS2 and the fees were only £2.5k!

@Wbeezer yes for sure! Pre-Brexit DD would have opted for a Scottish University with absolute certainty as the cost was lower for EU students than in England or Wales. I think England are honoring British Citizens living in the EEA with home fees. Unsure about Scotland though. DD has applied to Glasgow and if she gets offered a place there then we’ll have to see what student finance Scotland are offering students in the same situation as DD. Lots to think and worry about.

The DC of London based internationals often applied to a number of countries in parallel: UK (including Scotland for EU citizens), US, Canada, their home country. One contemporary of DD ended up in Australia. I can see Ireland replacing Scotland in the future.

One academic French DC wanted to study medicine. The UK was tricky because of the emphasis on aptitude tests, interview, and work experience/volunteering/shadowing. She did not get a place (many don't first time round, though the mother put it down to the English failure to appreciate the superiority of French education) and though getting a place in France is relatively easy the failure rate for medics at the end of the first year is huge.

The solution was to apply to Ireland as well, then defer the place. If the girl failed her first year in France she could then start again in Ireland where the expectation is that once accepted you will graduate.

The real beauty of the Irish system is that it is simple, and you don't need to invest too much time during a busy final year at school. I assume that EU applications will grow, though for many it will remain a back up.

DD eventually decided she did not mind taking a gap year and reapplying, so was not going to pursue a back up. I think she would have enjoyed Ireland. (My side of the family is London Irish from about five generations back.) Ironically her medical school is popular with students from Northern Ireland and she has a group of Irish friends, indeed belongs to the Irish society and pre-lockdown they were planning to attend a fancy dress party as Derry girls. Most, I think also tried Ireland, but could not meet the grade requirements (pretty much 3xA*,A). It will be even harder now if they need to pay international fees.

[quote Decorhate]@EarringsandLipstick

I am Irish. Studied at UCC. Everyone’s experience will be different but most of the students I know from the Cork/Kerry area do tend to go to UCC or Limerick. If you live in Cork city or commuter belt, it is unusual not to stay living at home. There is an affordability issue due to the lack of student loans which can hinder people applying for courses further afield because parents can’t afford the rent.

I can only comment on the experiences of friends & family. Family member from Kerry who went to Dublin found the weekends lonely at first.

This does not mean that you won’t make friends & have a great time. One of my groups of friends all went to the same secondary school so once so made friends with one I got to know the whole group as well.[/quote]
Apologies @Decorhate 😊

I, too, went to UCC! I eschewed UL / MIC in favour of it (even though I could have had free fees in UL, I was of the time before 3rd level became 'free'). I did so as my course was better regarded in UCC, at the time.

Yes, many Cork / Kerry people in UCC. But I'd friends from Donegal, Dublin & Wexford to name a few.

If you're in Donegal, or Waterford, or Roscommon, you will have to travel, that was my point.

You will of course find a lot of 'local' people at the particular university but it's not a key issue as so many don't have a local university, that's my point.

In MU it's v much a commuter university for sure - but also has a strong demographic from the Midlands & West, who don't all travel home.

I went home about once every 6 weeks when in UCC but my friend went home each weekend

As you say, it depends, but it's varied enough not to be a concern, IMO

@MuserOwl

Oh yeh, another thing, as a single parent, I don't know any movers and shakers. If my dd has to do a placement as a part of her fourth year that would be a nightmare for her/me. I hate that nonsense. Her three placements when she was in transition year. I found two of them and the third, I told her to try and sort it out herself. She did not sort anything out! So she enjoyed a week in bed watching netflix, I gave the school my number, knowing that nobody would be put through unless they provided their pps number. She is older now but I cannot imagine having to find a placement to complete a part of your degree being anything other than stress for me!!

It's different at 3rd level @MuserOwl

The university will arrange placements. It's nothing to do with parents (tho some people are able to set one up themselves but it still has to be approved with the university).

I honestly wouldn't worry about Trinity vs somewhere else. That's a fallacy really. Concentrate on finding the right course for your DC that has a good reputation & suits them, and they'll do well. That's the most important

• posted a bit too soon!

... most important thing.

And I do agree, the cost is v challenging.

I'm a single parent to 3 children (eldest is only 13) but I really don't know how I'll manage as they will overlap (if they do go to 3rd level, as I hope).

I didn’t realise Griffith College was private. I would rather go down the state university route. I have no bias towards universities or institutes.

And it's not a University as a PP said.

I don't think you should have any bias re University / IT [which = Institute of Technology]. BUT be aware that they are very different models of education.

As you say, it's about which suits your DD more.

Eg ITs are much more classroom based with a vocational element.

Honestly, there are some ITs I would absolutely not recommend, academically. But others are leaders in research & teaching. They tend to be able to move quickly with new projects as they are smaller, and with a tighter hierarchy.

@EarringsandLipstick which IT’s would you not recommend and which 5 Universities/ IT’s would you recommend for either Law or Engineering? In all honestly I just scrolled down the options for Law on the CAO website and listed the institutions that provided a Law (LLB) course. I have no idea which are regarded for their academic excellence aside from Trinity which has more of an internationally renowned reputation. Maynooth has come up more than once by several posters as a good option so that is firmly on the list.

Would one approach be to:

1. Look at the points that successful applicants needed, as this will give some indication of how academic a course is. (Bearing in mind that Dublin Universities have large local catchments.)

1. Then look at course content.

1. Virtual open days, prospectuses.

1. Then if there are further questions, ask the University or post on The Student Room

To be honest, you DC sounds academic and, as you say, will be applying to Universities in three or four countries. The Irish system is reasonably predictable. I would not sweat too much about fourth or fifth choices.

One academic French DC wanted to study medicine. The UK was tricky because of the emphasis on aptitude tests, interview, and work experience/volunteering/shadowing. She did not get a place (many don't first time round, though the mother put it down to the English failure to appreciate the superiority of French education) and though getting a place in France is relatively easy the failure rate for medics at the end of the first year is huge.

The solution was to apply to Ireland as well, then defer the place. If the girl failed her first year in France she could then start again in Ireland where the expectation is that once accepted you will graduate.

This is not possible.

Applicants who fail medicine courses are generally deemed ineligible for entry into medicine programmes in Ireland and elsewhere unless there are very exceptional circumstances.

www.ucc.ie/en/ck701/#course-outline

Ahh. Perhaps the mum was not as clever as she thought she was. Though technically the DD had already been accepted for her Irish deferred place, as she had not failed elsewhere at that point.

@Middersweekly in terms of IT's it depends on the course and the IT itself, they all have their strengths.For example Waterford Institute of Technology is renowned for having great nursing school. And it also has a good science department and great links with pharmaceutical industries in the area so a high employment rate after BSC's in pharmaceutical technology and biotechnology etc etc

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but you mention she would be entitled to student loan. Have you considered Queens University Belfast? Their law programme keeps the options open to do a training contract in NI, Republic of Ireland or the UK. I know you were staying away from the UK but fees are much lower in NI and Belfast is incredibly cheap to live in.