Irish Universities?

[Middersweekly]

Is anyone else’s DC planning on applying to an Irish university or has anyone been to an Irish university/college? We live in the EU not UK so technically an EU university would be better from a finance point of view. There seems to be some good universities in Dublin such has Trinity College. Would love to hear people’s experiences.

Dd is planning to apply to Trinity, now that @chimneypot has confirmed that she wouldn’t be an international student . She’s applying for 5 UK universities through UCAS too. I am Irish but studied in the UK, and we live in the UK. Irish students are more likely than UK students to go to their ‘local’ university, and many do go home at the weekend, but I think this is less likely at Trinity which has a sizeable number of international students. Dublin is a fabulous city, although an expernisve one. Grade requirements for Trinity are pretty high.

When we were looking there was some useful stuff on The Student Room.

As Decorate was saying, it’s points based. With medicine it was points from an aptitude test taken around Christmas, plus points from your achieved A levels. (The different points awarded to different qualifications is on University websites.) You had a rough idea how many points would be needed for, say, Trinity, or Galway and so you more or less know what you needed to get.

You then applied putting Universities, I think 5, in priority order. Then in summer when the results are out the top of the cohort get the most popular places, the next group the next most popular, and so on. There were, from memory, only five medical schools so the least popular were Limerick and Galway. That said those schools are pretty good and seem to be picking up a lot of US research money, and the entry requirements were still stiff.

In short you need to know what point cut off Trinity usually uses for law, check whether they also require an aptitude test, and anything else like language GCSEs. Then check whether current predictions put you in the right ballpark, and work hard to get the grades that will be needed.

With the UK leaving the EU, competition is likely to get tougher.

Has your daughter considered The Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin which has a highly rated school of medicine. It is pricey. Worth a look though.

Thankyou everyone for your replies. You have all been so helpful.
@Needmoresleep I have just been on the Trinity College website to work out the points system. DD will hopefully have well over the required points required judging by what I’ve worked out. She hasn’t however taken another language at A-level, only at GCSE. I don’t know if that makes any difference? I didn’t add any points up for GCSE’s only the 4 A levels inclusive of Mathematics bonus.

Good to know they can apply to 5 Irish universities also! 👍🏻 We will definitely do that.
Does anyone know if she can apply for 2 different subjects to the various universities or is it similar to the UK in that you apply for one subject and one subject alone?

@LadyEloise my DD wants to study either Law or Engineering.

I hope this isn't a stupid question, but if you study law in say Ireland or Scotland how does it affect your chances of getting a training contract or a job elsewhere - in England for example?

You can apply for different courses at the same university. Our leaving cert system is so different to A levels. Essentially, students are allocated points for each subject. Places are awarded based on how many points you achieve in your leaving cert exam.

The points set for each course are totally determined by demand each year. This has been a very strange year, no exams and ultimately points determined by schools, which are far higher than those normally achieved by students.

Because of this, the points required for entrance to certain courses has risen hugely, some by as much as 60 points (normal differential year on year would be well below 10).

Trinity has a good reputation for law, UCD is good for engineering.

@ginfordinner it's relatively easy to do a conversion exam.

Has she spent much time in Ireland? Because it’s only a superficially similar culture to England in many ways. I used to be an academic who dealt with foreign students at an Irish university, and the ones who expected it to be the same as home often struggled.

Essentially it's not useful in these strange times to try to predict cut off points for courses. Minimum points required by universities for courses bear almost no similarity to those of successful students.

This year the points changed utterly for some courses. Next year is totally up in the air. That said, any students who will bring extra revenue to universities will be looked on most favourably!

I have just had a look at biomedical sciences at Trinity (DD is currently studying this at a UK university)

The entry requirements for this subject seem very low. It can't be right, surely? grade B at GCSE maths and two A levels grade C in any of the following: Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Mathematics, Geology, Geography, Computer Science or Further Mathematics.

DD's university asked for AAA - AAB at A level.

The Trinity course is four years and graduates end up with a BA and not a BSc. Is this why entry requirements are lower?

Is that the minimum entry requirement? If the course is over subscribed presumably the actual cut off, ie the points gained by the top performers who actually get places, may be quite a lot higher.

In terms of adapting I was surprised that an urban Asian boy with a tiger mum (she is my friend but would be the first to admit it) has had such a blast in Galway. Lots of friends who he went travelling with, and so on. Irish culture is different. But for some from overseas easier and more welcoming than the U.K.

I was UK educated and went to Trinity and loved it. Dublin is an amazing city and it's fab being right in the heart of it. Trinity is well regarded when searching for work and I got into a competitive grad program in London as did many others. I'm not sure how law translates to UK opportunities but it is very well regarded in Ireland.

Downsides are a lot of classmates will be Dublin based and have strong groups of school friends - I felt it took a little longer to form strong friendships (like hanging out outside of class stuff) but they're all lifelong friends now. Dublin is expensive for everything and it's not easy to get into Trinity Halls (there are some newer halls of residence but I'm not sure I love the location for a first year new to Dublin although I'm sure they're fine).

@Ginfordinner i think it was 510 last year so you'd need something like 3As (1563) and an A in a 4th (45) or 2A* and A would give 526.

@Needmoresleep

Is that the minimum entry requirement? If the course is over subscribed presumably the actual cut off, ie the points gained by the top performers who actually get places, may be quite a lot higher.

In terms of adapting I was surprised that an urban Asian boy with a tiger mum (she is my friend but would be the first to admit it) has had such a blast in Galway. Lots of friends who he went travelling with, and so on. Irish culture is different. But for some from overseas easier and more welcoming than the U.K.

I’m not in the least surprised that anyone escaping a tiger mother would have a good time in a party town like Galway!

Those are the minimum acceptable grades, though? Looking at the website you also have to meet the published Cental Admissions Office points score for the course, which is 510? If I've read thevCAO tariff correctly, as an example, DS2's predicted A, A, B at A level would give him 497 points (185 + 156 + 131, +25 because one of them is Maths), then his A in AS Physics (which he is not taking to A level) would add 38 points, so a total of 535. Only 25 points to play with to stay eligible. So could still achieve it - just! - with ABB (510), but not AAB ( 506) or ABB (481).

I think I've got that right...

www.tcd.ie/study/country/england/

The Irish system for applying to university is very different to the UK system.

The really important thing to remember when applying to Irish universities is that you MUST put your preferred course choice FIRST on the application form. It's different to the UK system where each application is considered by the university and offers are made on the merits of the application. There's no personal statement, it's all down to exam results on the day.

In the UK you know in advance what you need to achieve to get on your course, in Ireland you have a reasonable idea based on points required in previous years, but you are in effect competing with everyone else in the country who wants to do that particular course. The required points have little to do with the actual quality of a course and everything to do with its popularity. The more people want to do a course the higher the points will be. Trinity's points are high because it's a popular place to study, not because it's necessarily the 'best' place to go.

In the Irish system, if you meet the entry requirements of your first choice, that's what you will be offered. If you don't meet those requirements, you will be offered your second choice if you meet their requirements. If you don't qualify for your second choice, you might get your third. And so on down the list. If you've decided you don't want your first choice and prefer your second or third - tough, you can't change your mind at that stage.

So you will only get one offer for a Level 8 course, which are honours degrees. There's no possibility of getting multiple offers like in the UK.

You can also apply for Level 7 courses separately on your form. These are ordinary degrees and are usually offered by the Institutes of Technology. Many, but not all, have the option of a fourth year to bring the degree up to honours standard.

You can hold a Level 8 offer and a Level 7 offer and decide between the two.

Another thing to remember is that Irish honours degree courses are four years in length, not three as in England. This makes it more expensive than it might initially seem.

I went to university in England and have had three DC go through the Irish system fairly recently.

Dd is a first year at Trinity - she hasn’t been home yet - partly because of Covid & also she’s having a blast. She’s met lots of UK & other EU students & a few Americans.
As a pp said - lots of Irish students tend to go home at weekends but we’re in a rural area & she’s starry eyed by the city & all the lovely new people.
She’s in student halls & this is def best option. At moment , a lot of students are staying I halls at weekends.
Accommodation is cheaper (for us) than UCD & DCU . She had considered the Dutch uni Groningen (sp) but preferred Trinity for course & international reputation.

Trinity says is wants 532 points for Law. So minimum DD needs is 3 x A’s + 1 x C at A-level. She also get 25 points added for doing Maths A-level which is 533 points. This is what I’ve worked out so they do have a pretty high bar. I will try and find the points required for the other Univerities mentioned such as Maynooth, Waterford Institute, TUC, Griffith College Dublin, and Carlow.

@Gaelforce I’m glad your DD is enjoying it. We are in Spain so DD would only be coming back at the end of term also. I am hopeful that if she was to go to Ireland there would be other students in the same boat she could hang out with.

Griffith College isn't a university! If you PM I'm very happy to help!

I think you have missed the point that she will need to checked whether a law degree from Ireland would allow her to go on to the LPC/SQE in England or Wales if that is her ultimate intention.

Also just because she was born in the UK does not mean she is automatically entitled to apply for student finance over here.

Let her investigate her choices between engineering and law and and also where she should study law if she wants to actually practice it rather than just take it as an academic subject where she might go but I suggest you ascertain her fee position quite quickly.

Thankyou @DramaAlpaca that is very insightful. From what you’re saying it’s a bit of a shot in the dark when you apply. You just have to do the best you can and hope you’ve made the required points for that current year group. I hadn’t considered why the courses were 4 years long for an undergraduate Honors degree. I wonder what the rationale is behind this? I also went to a UK university and did mine in 3 years. In that case yes it could potentially work out more/less the same in terms of cost.

@SeasonFinale I will check this as she would want to go on and get a pupilage following graduation. In Scotland she was able to opt for “Common Law” which is essentially based around the English legal system as opposed to “Scots Law”
In terms of Student finance I’m not sure she would be entitled to it in Ireland as she’s a British born citizen with EU residency. I think you have to have a European citizenship to qualify. Pre-Brexit all would have been ok. Now everything is going to cost us an arm and a leg!

Students tend to go to their nearest one unless the course they want is not offered there.

Bear in mind that many Irish students live at home or go home most weekends

@Decorhate I'm assuming you're not Irish?

I'm Irish, studied at 3 different Irish universities (undergraduate & postgraduate study), and have worked at 4 others, including now (Maynooth University).

So have a good understanding I think!

Decorhate is broadly incorrect here.

Firstly, many Irish students don't have a university near to them! This is true for large swathes of rural Ireland. The distance to travel home wouldn't enable students to go home each weekend.

Secondly, many students do choose universities based on how well-regarded a course is. I chose my course & university on that basis.

It is correct that in Dublin, many students continue to live at home, if they're from Dublin or the wider area, and similarly for MU, but equally those universities have many students from outside Dublin who will stay at weekends.

So disregard that entirely. There'll be plenty of people around at weekends!

Moving on to how international / EU students fare, in my experience, they are well provided for eg designated offices to offer support, societies & separate provisions like an orientation for overseas / international students. So I'd have no worries on that basis.

A bit cliched, but Ireland is, overall, welcoming, and overseas students generally love it here.

Regarding offers, each university sets out the criteria for entry to their course from each country, so check the websites of any university you are interested in.

is it similar to the UK in that you apply for one subject and one subject alone?

You don't apply for a subject, it's a course.

And it's straightforward that you check you have both the minimum requirements and the level at your own country to gain entry.

I would contact relevant departments in your university of interest to discuss further.