University experience is awful at the moment

[Cupcakke]

DD moved into university on Saturday. The rules are very stringent, both campus bars are closed, the university library has very little capacity and the restaurant is take away only. There are virtually no freshers events in person.

Her flat mates are very shy and not very social and she is in a small flat.

Large gatherings keep occurring but the penalty for this is very severe so DD very cautious not to attend these.

She is essentially watching Netflix in her room. I fear for the loneliness. The online events she has attended are poorly attended and just very boring.

Teaching starts next week and her In person contact hours are just 4 hours a week.

Anyone else’s dc thinking this years university experience is non existent.

@Newgirls

Absolutely I blame this dire gov. Yet when the provision varies so much between unis then we have to discuss that too?

Glad to hear that many lecturers/profs etc are doing f2f but would love to know where.

Yes of course provision will vary, and it's entirely valid to discuss it. I would suggest encouraging the students themselves to complain though where necessary rather than the parents.

My point is that these general sweeping statements about greedy universities not caring about students/misleading students are just irritating when you consider the work that goes on behind the scenes and the absolute commitment most of us have to getting the balance right between health and safety, student experience, and not losing our jobs due to mass redundancies caused by loss of tuition fee income.

Provision varies in large part because some universities have more money and space.

My university is doing ok financially but has been struggling to have enough space for actual teaching for years. This makes it very difficult to offer f2f when we're required to have social distancing. My department decided to prioritise f2f for first years but some core modules are taught by vulnerable staff so it's been difficult to plan.

Leadership also makes a huge difference. I can see our department managing well compared to others and a lot of that is the SLT.

If Universities do not own their accommodation blocks, more fool them.

Hall fees at many unis are over £7000 a year
so even with the maximum maintenance loan
parents have to pay out week after week

My 3rd dc has just started at university. For each of the dc, we looked at several universities and several different types of accommodation within each of the universities.
We haven't looked at a University where they would have to pay £7K pa.
I'm not saying there isn't accommodation that cost that, but I'm saying, students have choices about where to go, and once there, have choices about what accommodation they live in.

dd (who has just started) has a very nice room in a very nice block for £99 a week and the contracts are 40 or 42 weeks.

The ones I look at were built 70 years ago and have not been refurbished since.

Again, you must have sought hard to find these. Overwhelmingly Universities have either invested a lot in accommodation over the last 20 year, or contracted it out to private providers. The standard of accommodation in the dozens and dozens of universities I've been to, is incredibly high and a completely different world from 30 odd years ago. This isn't just the places we've used, or viewed, but all the places various nieces, nephews,, and friends have lived in (so not just the show flat' on open days).

Backforgood
Again, you must have sought hard to find these.
No, it was easy. Its the room my best friend lived in during our first year

Also part of the problem is that universities do not find out until very late in the day how many students are actually showing up, and there was absolutely no way to predict what would happen this year with covid and brexit both. My university's worst case scenario was a 40% drop in revenue, which would be catastrophic, so yes they did everything possible to get students to come back and trim costs everywhere.

As it turned out enrolment held steady, it was a huge surprise. But almost all the casual teaching staff and teaching assistants had been let go so now it's a scramble to provide enough modules.

I'm not going to defend universities who are doing a poor job but these really are unprecedented times and a lot of universities are trying to do their best, it's just very difficult. Government support would have helped so much.

things like English that cost little other than lecturer wages

Do English Lit and other humanities students not need libraries? Books? Academic journals? It’s less than the STEM subjects, but not “little more than lecturer wages”

@AgileLass

things like English that cost little other than lecturer wages

Do English Lit and other humanities students not need libraries? Books? Academic journals? It’s less than the STEM subjects, but not “little more than lecturer wages”

Do they not use the university buildings, facilities, toilets, lighting, food outlets, IT equipment, furniture? Even if they don't the lecturers do so saying a university course costs little more than a lecturer's salary is financially naïve in the extreme. Have you never heard of overheads?

bumbling
Please note that agile was quoting me
and it has always been the dirty secret of fees that Universities bump up the numbers of cheap course students to subsidise the expensive ones.
Hence why I said little more
as a seminar room is rather cheaper than an anechoic chamber or a PCR lab

Not quite sure if I should raise it with staff yet but the recorded content... sooooo fucking fast! I know it's bloody hard to judge the pitch of your delivery without an audience to feed back to and gauge how they're doing - but flipping heck I'm wearing the pause and rewind buttons out!

This is actually very helpful feedback for me! I have noticed than when recording alone I am much faster than when I'm in a lecture hall- I guess the lack of student nodding, feedback, also it's quite hard to talk for a prolonged period and not feel self-conscious on camera. I am going to try really really hard to slow up a bit...

GCAcademic feel free to tell me to f off...

But your students are still learning something really valuable by attending seminars, even if they aren't the full-on discussions of the past. This generation is, and this board shows people still haven't fully accepted this, have different skills than in the past. One of those skills is going to be turn-taking and speaking with a mask on. I'm not joking, even if we get a vaccine, it's going to be years (IMO) before people are out and about without masks/face coverings if there's another outbreak, and also the shift to remote working is going to mean that animated interactive discussion is going to be replaced (because Zoom also encourages turn-taking in a formal way, you can't have everyone with mics on as there's too much noise, so switching one, saying your bit and switching off is the norm there too).

Other skills our students will need is to learn, over time, not straight away, but to be able to present themselves and their ideas on camera. Half of mumsnet doesn't have their cameras on, but as this generation goes forward into the workplace, they will have Skype interviews and Zoom meetings and being confident enough to take your place in online work is going to be really important.

That's why I'm a bit annoyed when parents keep saying 'it's all online' as if this has no relevance to future skills. In fact, the chances of the world reverting to bustling city centre offices is quite remote, there has been a sea-change. The universities are starting to realise that they are going to need to equip this generation with the new skills to be a blended student or a blended worker, this IS the new norm. I've had to learn to give to-camera presentations with captions in 4 months, which was a skill only newsreaders and presenters and YouTubers had before!

I'm not saying all is rosy in the garden, it isn't. It is a shame if the kind of discussions we used to have won't happen again for a while (like it's a shame we can't sing in a real choir) but it's wrong to think just because the uni experience of teaching isn't the same, that it isn't valuable.

Yes. I have done a lot of public speaking and always have to tell myself to slow up. Also recapping and summarising helps people too. My sons have no lectures this year at all (this is post grad law), not a single one, but have workshops online which for them are probably the last useful thing as you basically waste 1 or 2 hours watching other people (students) make mistakes but I think despite an attendance record being needed they are allowed to skip them or "watch" them later. However as a speaker I always think workshops are helpful (and they are) as people can discuss things amongst themselves and then come back with their answers which we can discuss although to be fair they are much easier for me as I get a break during the session.

I'm a Microbiolgy student, we are having 2 labs per week and 1 seminar f2f every fortnight. With lectures being online.

Not much else can be done.

Joining in the diversion onto presentation speed ....

Set up a Zoom session with a couple of friends/family and present ten minutes of your course material.
Record it.
Get them to give you feedback and watch yourself back.
My kids are sick of DH and I testing timings on them, but it has meant that the intended audiences get a more finished product

and YYYY that online meetings and teaching are where its going so we have to get used to it.

but always remember that pipettes do not work through a webcam

I’m sending the link to this thread to my d - she’s a second year medical student in London and is on the welfare committee of her SU.

They are already acutely aware of freshers mental health and are trying to put things in place to make them feel more involved and welcome and supported. They already had a ‘mums and dads’ system for freshers and are encouraging the older students to really look out for their ‘children’ more, and are pushing it so that more of the freshers get involved - the uptake for the scheme is quite variable but it could be particularly valuable this year. It’s harsh that people are quite scathing of the SU support, most of the SU are students working in a voluntary capacity who have courses and challenges of their own - they’re going through it as well. For my d, she only got half a first year so isn’t as settled in uni as she might have hoped by this stage but still want to try to do her bit to support the incoming students. But anyway it’s useful to be able to pass on some of the thoughts and experiences here to give her a picture of what they’re trying to help with.

My DD has just got her timetable.The enitirety online. Added to which half of her modules clash and have been scheduled at the same time !!!

I fear the universities, which need to make money, are putting financial decisions ahead of welfare of students.
I feel very sorry for freshers this year.
They either need to send them home and have it online, or accept covid will rise and do face to face.

ListeningQuietly funny about the pipettes!

Presenting self on camera is probably something young people have the edge on- they are used to taking selfies and many post on Youtube, Snapchat and so on.

It is us that are behind the curve!

No, it was easy. Its the room my best friend lived in during our first year

And you are absolutely certain that it hadn't been refurbished since the 1940's?

Somehow I find that unlikely.

@Poppingnostopping I think most parents understand that this is the way work is going , after all a lot of us have had to adapt in the last 6 months.

I think what they are upset about is the fact that this could have been done from home And that the universities have been somewhat disingenuous about what the university experience will be like . Why for example could StEM students only move to campus this term and everyone else as and when it became possible .

Most students I know are also keenly aware that this is an unpredictable year but there is a suspicion the students have been encouraged to move to campus by university management when this may not gave been in their best interest financially, academically or from a mental health point of view.

I have to say that the students in my dept are really desperate for F2F teaching and seem enthusiastic and positive. Theres really not a sense of “we should have stayed at home and done it all online” coming from our students, at least. Can’t speak for what their parents think though!

No freshers events for DS and 4 hours f2f going forward. I think it is a better option for him to be pursuing education than loafing at home , jobless, but we live within commuting distance and I think that he is unlikely to use his halls place . I feel for them on a social, educational and personal development front but it is just unfortunate. I actually think that those at campus universities will find it easier but I agree that there will be a lot of dropping out and worse still, unhappiness.

But what if there are zero f2f contact hours , so you are stuck for 10 weeks in a small flat with 5 other people who you didn’t choose and a laptop screen. No adult contact at all , little or no library access , limited opportunity to meet other potential friends.

The pictures of the flats in Glasgow yesterday were very striking. Many students domestic skills are still developing ( being tactful) and a lot of universities are not providing any cleaning . It will
not be long before tempers begin to fray over dirty bathrooms and kitchens. I am not sure that University management have really thought these practicalities through.

it has always been the dirty secret of fees that Universities bump up the numbers of cheap course students to subsidise the expensive ones

Yes, it should be uncontroversial that humanities students subsidise science students - it's a fact.

I actually think that those at campus universities will find it easier

Yes I agree. I am encouraging ds to put down at least one commutable uni and at least one campus uni for next year, so he has some choices - hopefully this will all be a horrible memory/manageable annoyance by this time next year, but given I thought we'd start returning to some sort of normal by May half term and look at how well that's gone, I'm not putting money on it.

I think what they are upset about is the fact that this could have been done from home

I agree that the issue of money for halls is clouding everything but what I would say is this:

My first years want to be away from home, they are excited about that even if they are just meeting a few people and everything is different.

Second- students CAN go home and study online in most universities, we have a list of students who have 'reasons' (but you could just say there's a vulnerable parent, for example). I have about a third of students who are shielding/in isolation temporarily/stuck abroad and can't return or have actively chosen online study. It would piss me off too if I'd paid out for halls and then it was all online, however, if you want them back they are not (yet) prevented from traveling home and taking the course online. Two out of my students have done this and I'll support any others that want to do so.

Finally- the threat level changed in the middle of the first week! What do you want us to do? If we had announced back in June or July when everything was looking much better that there would be no face to face teaching, and that students should all stay home (and remember, just like with schools, many homes are not happy ones) then there would have been outrage. Blended learning was developed because we simply didn't know what would happen. We still don't know what the situation will be in a months' time! This week the threat level changed and a lot of unis got spooked and went completely online. It happened on a Tues evening. We had to change the timetables of our 25,000 students. In the middle of the week!

Honestly, I'm starting to feel like the teachers on the teacher thread. Whatever we do- face to face, blended, online, no-one is happy. We get it, no-one is happy, but actually there's still a lot of good learning and responsive teaching going on. I feel cautiously ok about the safety of the campus, but there are still Covid cases.

I don't think keeping a generation at home to save money, and sit in with their parents, is the right thing to do myself, had campuses not opened up, people would have been very angry. Like it or not, more students than ever have weighed up their options and decided that leaving home and coming to uni is the least worst option in a pandemic and we really are trying to do our best to accommodate them.

Popping please don’t take it personally I am 100% certain that academic staff are doing their level best. But some universities, encouraged by the Government, heavily pressured students to travel to campus and many 18 year olds were desperate to leave home and have the independence they craved and perhaps didn’t ask as many questions as they should, didn’t read between the lines or ask for detail. So many times I have heard ‘the universities wouldn’t be encouraging us to come if they weren’t going to teach in person and have sports etc’ this from students and parents who so want their children to have something to look forward to. As someone on another thread said teens are hard wired for action not detail!