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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

University experience is awful at the moment

617 replies

Cupcakke · 22/09/2020 09:57

DD moved into university on Saturday. The rules are very stringent, both campus bars are closed, the university library has very little capacity and the restaurant is take away only. There are virtually no freshers events in person.

Her flat mates are very shy and not very social and she is in a small flat.

Large gatherings keep occurring but the penalty for this is very severe so DD very cautious not to attend these.

She is essentially watching Netflix in her room. I fear for the loneliness. The online events she has attended are poorly attended and just very boring.

Teaching starts next week and her In person contact hours are just 4 hours a week.

Anyone else’s dc thinking this years university experience is non existent.

OP posts:
Poppingnostopping · 25/09/2020 09:33

If there is absolutely no f2f as many are reporting it does seem a bit of an unnecessary luxury/white elephant

I did speak about money in my first post- to agree with you! From the parents perspective, this is money down the drain in some senses. Unfortunately the universities approached the gov't for a bailout so they weren't so dependent on fees, and the gov't said no. The government (and previous governments) have created universities as a business sector, not as a public service, and what we have had to do to survive is to keep the students coming. Otherwise, we really are facing mass redundancies, and the collapse of some unis . That then has an impact on local economies as well as meaning less places for the next round of uni students, which next years' parents won't be too happy about. There is not a solution to this from the current position, as the unis need students to come! So actually do local businesses, but you wouldn't know that from the moaning of local people.

If I had a child at a local lockdown uni and they were deeply unhappy, I would try to get them out of halls/paying next term and bring them home. But many unis ARE still offering face to face, which is a giant experiment, frankly, and may not pay off reputationally if we have a big outbreak (see Glasgow). Plus many young people feel more purposive and more engaged being at uni, even with more limited contact time.

Finally, and I've said this so many times on the board I'm boring myself, parents always vastly over-estimate the amount of contact time their child really takes up. Parents are always telling me they want more contact time, students report they want more contact time, but when more actual contact time is offered, they don't take it! Many prefer to watch lectures online, get up late, don't read the readings, fail to take advantage of office hours. I don't mean a few- I mean about 50% of my class is like this by the end of term, and I have excellent ratings as being a really engaging teacher. People assume their own young person is highly engaged and attending everything- some are, but most are not. My office hours, where I'm prepared to work with anyone on essay plans, give advice, sympathetic ear, anything, are a dead zone til about week 6 when fear of deadlines kicks in. So, if your child has four hours a week contact time in humanities or social science and turns up for all of them, plus has the opportunity to speak online directly with staff, plus has tailored video lectures, then actually, that's pretty good going on our behalf.

University is not the free-for all highly covid risky school environment, thank goodness. My uni provides protective masks, hand sanitiser in every room, marshals to direct students, private testing (so results back immediately). Not all are doing that and perhaps those that are doing a great job should be rewarded by more students next year, if the market operates as the gov't thinks it does.

DominaShantotto · 25/09/2020 09:58

My uni really really did put the pressure on the students to go to campus. I had private discussions with my tutor and got told that they were actually providing alternatives for those who can't get onto campus for face-to-face stuff, feel free to dial into those if needs be and they'll support me at a distance (my mental health has become so battered by all of this that I'm getting the most horrendous panic attacks and anxiety symptoms).

We have a lot of "not quite local" students on our course who live in halls normally - but live a fairly tolerable commutable distance into campus. If the uni had been honest about the timetable blend from the start I think a fair few of them would have just stayed at home and come in the couple of hours trip for the 4-5 sessions of on-campus teaching we actually have this term.

Not quite sure if I should raise it with staff yet but the recorded content... sooooo fucking fast! I know it's bloody hard to judge the pitch of your delivery without an audience to feed back to and gauge how they're doing - but flipping heck I'm wearing the pause and rewind buttons out!

One thing that always annoys me about these kind of discussions is the "well they never come to lectures anyway" line of defence - which really isn't fair on the conscientious ones who try hard but don't want to bother staff - and to be honest, how many DO really have queries needing office hours until they're starting really having to get their head around the work when beginning to tackle essays?

The other thing is that this is all really fucking with my dyslexia having to take in much more reading on-screen via the uni ebooks where my text to speech software doesn't work right. I've got a really bad discrepancy in my cognitive ability where I can spell, write and construct text brilliantly, stupidly high IQ - but my brain does not process written information at all well... I thrive on being able to discuss and clarify information - giving me chapter after chapter of a book to read just is a nightmare for me and I need to find a way to work around it, because all of my DSA software recommendations were set up based around the "traditional" uni model.

DominaShantotto · 25/09/2020 09:59

One to make you giggle though with recorded lectures - I was going through one of our module outline sessions the other day and there was the ever so chirpy final part of the module described as "and we will be finishing the year with dementia"

I cracked up laughing - think I'm already there love - 2020's driven me demented.

ListeningQuietly · 25/09/2020 10:01

Lab based courses CANNOT be done online
Practical / medical courses CANNOT be done online
Engineering courses CANNOT be done online

all this talk about tutorials kinda forgets that its LAB BIOLOGISTS who will get us out of this mess
and we better make sure the next generation get trained

catpoooffender · 25/09/2020 10:02

I'm glad to see some fellow university employees trying to explain the uni perspective on this matter. It winds me up to see posters suggesting that universities don't care about their students and that they're only interested in money. If you had any idea how much time had been spent planning for this intake since the start of the pandemic, you'd realise that actually most of us do care a great deal. And even if we didn't care about the well-being of students, we'd still care about the reputational repercussions of providing a poor student experience. Nobody wants to be in this situation but it is what it is.

As for the PP who suggested she would 'raise merry hell' if the situation with her son wasn't resolved (the situation being that he only had one flatmate) - what do you think that will achieve? Unless your son is under 18, he is the one who has a contractual relationship with the university, not you. Plus what would a complaint achieve? What would be your proposed solution?

I feel very sorry for the students too. I remember my first week at university as a scary and lonely time, and I was in a flat full of people. But this isn't the fault of universities, it's the fault of a global pandemic the likes of which none of us have seen in our lifetimes. Everyone is suffering because of it. It's shit but we're all trying our best.

dingit · 25/09/2020 10:08

Catproof I agree with most of your points, except why shouldn't the parents feel angry? They are paying £££, and their dc are only just turned 18, they don't automatically gain a full set of adult skills. In ordinary times it's fine to let them try and sort themselves out, but at the moment just no.

catpoooffender · 25/09/2020 10:18

The anger is misplaced. If you're going to be angry, direct it at the virus itself, or at the government whose HE policy has led to a situation wherein universities are desperate for students to keep themselves afloat. Remember that the fees UK students pay don't even cover the costs of teaching them in all cases. Those fees replace funds the government used to provide, it's not new profit.

BackforGood · 25/09/2020 10:20

I've only skimmed some of the pages, but, overall I agree with @paprikasausage
My dd is a fresher this year and is very happy.
They've been stuck at home for 6 months, now they have the chance to meet new people, investigate new places. They are learning once more and also learning all the life skills that come with living away from parents (budgeting, shopping, cooking, storing food, washing, etc). they can still 'talk to' al their friends from home via social media, and now have whole new bubbles of friends to get to know.
dd certainly isn't sitting in her room. There are places to get out and walk wherever you live.

Everyone has had restrictions imposed by the pandemic. It isn't the Universities that are limiting them, it is a global pandemic.

My dd has far more 'scope' to get out and about in a new place with new friends, than living at home with us.

ListeningQuietly · 25/09/2020 10:22

Remember that the fees UK students pay don't even cover the costs of teaching them in all cases. Those fees replace funds the government used to provide, it's not new profit.
Maybe for tuition but NOT for accommodation.

51 week lets are profiteering

Charging £175 a week for rooms that are unchanged since I was chared £30 a week for the 30 years ago (online prospectus is a fascinating thing) is profiteering

running all food and drink outlets at commercial prices despite no rental costs is profiteering

when students pay all but £40 of their maintenance loan in hall fees
parents have a right to be VERY ANGRY

worstofbothworlds · 25/09/2020 10:31

Why are the parents paying £££?
OK they are topping up loans but you get more if you're on campus: the difference between home and campus loans is about £100/ month and the accommodation cost for a campus room is about £330 for a basic room at my uni (you don't pay in the summer).
So yes, either student or parent is paying that extra and it is being pocketed by the uni but the students are the ones who will pay back the loans.
If £230 a month will bankrupt the family then the student would be getting a full loan surely?
I don't mean to sound unfeeling but it is ultimately a contract between the student and their landlord or the Uni.

Newgirls · 25/09/2020 10:33

Of all the freshers I know I only know medical students doing any f2f stuff. Even the dentist i know is online.

No idea where the place doing 50% is as I know people in very remote unis eg Lancaster and st Andrews and certainly not at that level?

monkeyonthetable · 25/09/2020 10:35

I'm still baffled by how student fees to unis don't cover the teaching costs because I know (and have been one myself) a vast number of uni lecturers who are on part time or casual short term contracts on pitiful hourly rates which don't begin to cover the huge amounts of prep and admin that they do for free. Which tutors are snorkelling up the fees? There are loads of uni tutors paid £19ph inclusive of prep and admin time (so around £10-15ph in real terms) with no permanent PT of FT status. 8 hours teaching at £19-£35ph divided by the number of students in a seminar group/lecture hall doesn't add up to what they pay in fees.

AgileLass · 25/09/2020 10:36

In my humanities subject all our students have F2F teaching each week.

catpoooffender · 25/09/2020 10:38

@ListeningQuietly

Remember that the fees UK students pay don't even cover the costs of teaching them in all cases. Those fees replace funds the government used to provide, it's not new profit. Maybe for tuition but NOT for accommodation.

51 week lets are profiteering

Charging £175 a week for rooms that are unchanged since I was chared £30 a week for the 30 years ago (online prospectus is a fascinating thing) is profiteering

running all food and drink outlets at commercial prices despite no rental costs is profiteering

when students pay all but £40 of their maintenance loan in hall fees
parents have a right to be VERY ANGRY

Do you think universities should just provide their services at cost or for free then? How would that work? Then they'd have no money to invest in better services and facilities for the very students (and parents) demanding them.
SueEllenMishke · 25/09/2020 10:38

The anger is misplaced. If you're going to be angry, direct it at the virus itself, or at the government whose HE policy has led to a situation wherein universities are desperate for students to keep themselves afloat. Remember that the fees UK students pay don't even cover the costs of teaching them in all cases. Those fees replace funds the government used to provide, it's not new profit.

This....

and remember not all universities own the accommodation. Mine doesn't....

Lots of universities are still doing f2f teaching. My students are getting 60% of their teaching time on campus. If we move to online it will be because the government has told us to. That was made clear to my department yesterday.

AgileLass · 25/09/2020 10:39

monkeyonthetable student fees don’t just go towards paying teaching staff, surely you know this if you were a lecturer.

Bwlch · 25/09/2020 10:41

One thing that always annoys me about these kind of discussions is the "well they never come to lectures anyway" line of defence - which really isn't fair on the conscientious ones who try hard

My husband wanted to run his lectures as normal with social distancing. The theatre capacity would be drastically reduced but, as he pointed out, still adequate for the number of keen students who actually attend now that lecture capture has been introduced. A first-come, first-served booking system would have ensured no overcrowding and lecture capture used as normal for the majority of students who prefer to study remotely.

He was told that University policy dictated that all lectures must be online only.

SueEllenMishke · 25/09/2020 10:43

I'm still baffled by how student fees to unis don't cover the teaching costs because I know (and have been one myself) a vast number of uni lecturers who are on part time or casual short term contracts on pitiful hourly rates which don't begin to cover the huge amounts of prep and admin that they do for free. Which tutors are snorkelling up the fees? There are loads of uni tutors paid £19ph inclusive of prep and admin time (so around £10-15ph in real terms) with no permanent PT of FT status. 8 hours teaching at £19-£35ph divided by the number of students in a seminar group/lecture hall doesn't add up to what they pay in fees.

Academics aren't the only staff employed by universities 🙄
Do you think the fees are paid directly to academics? It doesn't matter how many people I have on my course I still get paid the same.

But yes - the HE sector is the second biggest user of zero hour contracts which is shit.

catpoooffender · 25/09/2020 10:43

@monkeyonthetable

I'm still baffled by how student fees to unis don't cover the teaching costs because I know (and have been one myself) a vast number of uni lecturers who are on part time or casual short term contracts on pitiful hourly rates which don't begin to cover the huge amounts of prep and admin that they do for free. Which tutors are snorkelling up the fees? There are loads of uni tutors paid £19ph inclusive of prep and admin time (so around £10-15ph in real terms) with no permanent PT of FT status. 8 hours teaching at £19-£35ph divided by the number of students in a seminar group/lecture hall doesn't add up to what they pay in fees.
It's not just the lecturers that need paying. It's the facilities and the support services too. It's the mental wellbeing teams, the careers services, the financial advisers, the research support offices, the recruiters and the army of administrators. Security, Study Abroad teams, Quality Office, legal services. Universities don't just teach students, they provide a multitude of services for them and also these days have a great deal of responsibility in terms of immigration compliance, the management of misconduct issues and safeguarding.
Bwlch · 25/09/2020 10:49

I'm still baffled by how student fees to unis don't cover the teaching costs because I know (and have been one myself) a vast number of uni lecturers who are on part time or casual short term contracts on pitiful hourly rates

Overheads? The infrastructure costs of providing stem courses, in particular, is huge.

dreamingbohemian · 25/09/2020 11:01

The blame lies with the government and its determination not to offer a penny in bailout money to universities. They should have reduced fees this year, told students to stay at home if possible and compensated universities accordingly. Many universities lost so much money during the last lockdown than another one will finish them off completely.

This! I understand people are upset with universities but this is the heart of the problem.

Newgirls · 25/09/2020 11:05

Absolutely I blame this dire gov. Yet when the provision varies so much between unis then we have to discuss that too?

Glad to hear that many lecturers/profs etc are doing f2f but would love to know where.

ListeningQuietly · 25/09/2020 11:06

Tuition fees : it has always been the case that engineering degrees and lab based courses cost around £30k to run and are massively cross subsidsed by things like English that cost little other than lecturer wages

If Universities do not own their accommodation blocks, more fool them.
The ones I look at were built 70 years ago and have not been refurbished since.

Hall fees at many unis are over £7000 a year
so even with the maximum maintenance loan
parents have to pay out week after week

GCAcademic · 25/09/2020 11:06

@AgileLass

In my humanities subject all our students have F2F teaching each week.
Same here. 90% via f2f seminars.
AgentCooper · 25/09/2020 11:31

If I had a child at a local lockdown uni and they were deeply unhappy, I would try to get them out of halls/paying next term and bring them home. But many unis ARE still offering face to face, which is a giant experiment, frankly, and may not pay off reputationally if we have a big outbreak (see Glasgow). Plus many young people feel more purposive and more engaged being at uni, even with more limited contact time

@Poppingnostopping the outbreak at Glasgow can’t even be blamed on f2f teaching because there isn’t any Sad

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