Going into Year 13 - Uni entry 2021 - have they been forgotten?

[albicocca]

Is anyone else concerned about the children just about to start Year 13 and their opportunities for university entry in 2021? I have seen virtually no discussion about how this A level shambles might effect them. It seems to me there will inevitably be fewer university places for next year. Many of those who planned to go to uni this year will be deferring their places to 2021 (indeed some universities are offering money for them to do so now!) resulting in far fewer places. The current group will also have (on average) higher grades than next years cohort. So those taking A levels in 2021 will be competing for fewer places with lower grades. Have they been forgotten? What is the government doing to protect their opportunities too?

Do you think maybe for 2021 entry there will be some offers made, but with the condition of deferring to 2022? Especially for courses where numbers are controlled, such as medicine and dentistry?

Exactly.

I always said to dcs that it was irrelevant that they were top of the class/year, because that may be the top of nothing. Out in the real exam world, they were rated against the whole country’s pupils.

But now...

Anyway, it may be CAGS again this year so I am fully expecting A + knobs on for every pupil.

Let's hope most universities with offers from this year manage to accommodate students for a 2020 start - either by them taking on a different course or students sticking with their insurance offers, so not too many deferrals.

As for those who are going to apply again for more aspirational courses, let's hope more evidence is sought for their applications. Entrance exams, scrutiny of GCSE results, original predicted grades.

I would argue that six months out of school is accurate actually, despite the fact that some would always be the summer holiday. It’s already recognised that the long summer holiday has an adverse effect on many students, and September is often catch up time. My year 12er at a state sixth form college finished work in mid-March. He had three weeks face to face in July in which he had a single lesson a week per A level. Three Zoom lessons in total between March - July. The July classes were spent, according to his account, ‘doing the work they set us over lockdown because they reckon most people haven’t done it’. The work over lockdown was emails sent every 2/3 weeks with suggested reading, videos etc and some online tests, not chased if not done. DS did none of the online tests he was set. In July only one teacher set any work to be done over the summer. I suspect the others suggested revision but DS has ADHD and ASD and doesn’t engage well at the best of times, never mind when not given specific tasks. So he will have gone six months with almost no real education.

Meanwhile the private school down the road had a full online teaching schedule from March onwards.

I would really love to know as soon as possible how next year’s A levels are going to be made fair even within that year, let alone in comparison with this year.

Just as an aside, does anyone know how many offers are NOT made to applicants in any standard year? I don't know of anyone who has not been offered a place on any of their choices on their applications (other than vets and medics), so I am not sure of how common it is?

DD was rejected by Edinburgh for PPE on her 18th birthday as we were wandering around the grounds of the Oxford college which has accepted her. We went to the Turf Tavern so she could buy us a drink to commiserate.

@mumsneedwine But be warned, the same will happen to your child next year. It will be said they didn't do proper exams because content was cut.
I know gcse history & English Lit content has been cut but what content is being cut for for yr12 going into yr13 please? My DD is not aware of any. Assuming you’re talking about A levels.

www.gov.uk/government/news/exams-and-assessments-in-2021

No changes to most A levels without a practical / group performance element.

It varies for subject but from the outlines I read the other week it doesn't really cut out content, just changes how it will be assessed. Sorry, can't remember how to do a tidy link!

schoolsweek-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/exams-2021-all-the-as-and-a-level-changes-subject-by-subject/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15983380268435&amp_ct=1598338057412&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fschoolsweek.co.uk%2Fexams-2021-all-the-as-and-a-level-changes-subject-by-subject%2F

@NotDonna I teach Chemistry and the PAG element has been modified. Some subjects will be examined differently. And I very much expect further changes to this guidance if there are lockdowns. Probably at 5pm on a Friday as that's when the government likes to issue stuff for schools to implement on the Monday.

What we're other Year 12s experiences of lockdown teaching? I'm appalled to hear of work being set by email only every three weeks. How did schools not prioritise this year group?

GCSEs might not be so bad as schools had already started to teach them over 3 years - dd2 has covered topics in Y9 that my 17 year old did not start until Y10. If my dd1 managed to do GCSEs with 2 years of teaching, and now many content heavy are taught over 3 years, the new Year 11s might cope okay with a 4 month gap in teaching.

But A level? Schools did not think it would be a major issue to leave Year 22s teaching themselves A level content?

My dd1 has been fortunate. Her 6th form taught mostly live lessons and issued students from disadvantaged homes with laptops. They kept in touch pastorally, they moved on to Year 13 work. Teachers responded individually to concerns. They got EPQs and Personal statements rolling and ran sessions and tutorials to go through these. And still it's been hard and she's had wobbles over the topics not being consolidated, missing the greater understanding gained from group work, clinics etc... but the routine was maintained and the connection and its helped massively. This is a large state 6th form with a lot of socially deprived students.

Just checked the term dates for DS going back and for 3 weeks in October exams have been added! No e mails received about this and DS already had semi exams in June. This term is now going to be very hectic, personal statement, uni visits where we can and now exams in the immediate run up to potential Oxbridge tests. It's going to be a balancing act because if schools have to use these exams as evidence in the future, he needs to put the effort in and do well.

dd has been lucky: her subject teachers have been on everyone's case and dd complained that she had far more work than in "normal" times.

However, I bumped (at a distance) into a yr 12 parent I know who was raging at the lack of contact for a different subject - same school. The teacher's excuse was that he had to do childcare but surely someone can produce/mark work in the evenings.

So it depends on teachers as much as the school. I don't know how schools can force teachers to provide work - one can only hope that this is now an official requirement. I suppose it changes now that primary schools will be back and the childcare excuse (however genuine) won't wash.

actionnetwork.org/petitions/fairness-for-students-taking-a-levels-and-gcses-in-2021/

Came across this petition and thought of you all. I hope the link works, if not it was shared on Jeremy Corbyn’s Facebook page and is organised by the National education union.

Thanks mumsneedwine my DD is taking A level chemistry and didn’t think there was a practical exam anyway - she thought it was all written. She still needs to know the experiments though. So no reduction in content as far as she’s aware. Its a lot to teach/learn in 2 years as it is without having months off. I’m not sure how content can be reduced as every school teaches concepts in a differing order.
fortyfifty your school sounds amazing; but it does go to show the amount of disparity between schools. I think this is down to little guidance from government, lack of budget and leaving schools trying to do their best, which in some cases isn’t good enough. Narrowing that gap is very difficult.

Hmmmm, I'm not sure I approve of leniency in next year's exams - I suppose this means grades in line with 2020. It just exacerbates the situation.

I agree that there needs to be a plan for next year if exams can't take place. The problem is that if it's CAGS again, how can the teachers be anything other than "kind" to that cohort?

I can't think of an obvious answer, but I think reapplicants from this year should be judged on their GCSEs, and not A Levels, otherwise it's completely unfair. To try to make it more fair, judge applicants on the GCSE in that subject, or the subjects closest to that which they wish to study at university.

Probably it's too late, though, as UCAS is already open. I do think though that the Autumn exams should have been cancelled as soon as the u-turn was announced, as Yr 13s have had two cracks at the whip (CAGS and algorithm) and to have a third is a bit rich.

Irma Oxford already judges post A level applicants on their GCSEs rather than their A levels. They tick the minimum requirement for A level box then go to the other evidence: GCSEs, aptitude tests, reference, interview.

But I hope other universities are going to do the same. When ds applied post A Level he had four acceptances about five minutes after he had submitted his UCAS form. That was ok, he had 4A*s achieved in normal times. But it would be very unfair for universities (who don't interview or probably don't even read the PS) to dole out offers solely on this year's grades.

Probably at 5pm on a Friday as that's when the government likes to issue stuff for schools to implement on the Monday. you get the whole weekend! Surely you’ve nothing else to do😉

I don’t think it’s about leniency Irma. I think it’s about being tested on stuff that’s not been taught. Some sort of fairness. But how this works, I’ve no idea as it will vary massively across the country. As we’ve seen some schools are dire (and they’re not all state); some schools are amazing (and they’re not all private). No matter how great some schools are though, some students will fall through net!

The PAG element is science A levels is huge normally and you need to pass it for the A level to count. Students will still need to know the theory and what they'd do to carry out investigations but will not be examined on their practical skills. Which is a real shame.
Please stop saying that all this years grades are unfair. The majority are what the students would have got if they had sat the exams. They were based on 2 years of data. And they are about 3% in each grade which as I've said is because we couldn't account for a bad day.
The way things are going I might be doing CAGs again next year. Would you all rather teachers factor in bad days for some kids ? Because that might be yours.

@mumsneedwine I’ve not said this years grades are unfair. I actually believe exams are unfair. Way too many extraneous factors involved. A much fairer system would be to actually trust professionals to grade our kids on ‘their best days’. They’d be calls of teacher bias; personal dislikes, favourites etc. but there could be in-school moderation; externally, individual schools could be moderated alongside others, etc etc. I’m sure plenty of teachers have thought about this. Shame govt hasn’t! There’s definitely other methods. Our current system is flawed. I also believe applying to uni with predicted (often aspirational) grades is madness. Teens should be applying with them in hand. I really feel for teachers as they’ve had so little control and received a lot of bashing.
I was trying to work out what you meant by saying next years grades will be called ‘mickey mouse’ because of reduced content when the content is the same. I thought I’d missed something. I strongly disagree with pps calling this years Mickey Mouse! Or anyone calling anyone’s grades Mickey Mouse!
What’s happened with 2020 has happened. It’s been appalling. But we do need to consider what needs to happen with 2021. Maybe nothing will. Maybe it’ll be full content exams. Regardless whether or not the full syllabus is covered.

@NotDonna I agree with you on everything 😊. Wasn't really meaning you when saying don't call exams unfair so sorry if you thought I was. This year has been hideous, as a parent and a teacher. Next year I really hope we have a better system in place - we are pushing a OFQUAL to do just that NOW. To have plans in place for all possibilities.
Year 12 should be ok if we can stay on school as we can catch up work - staff are good at this. But it is dependent on staff staying well.

My son's HoY has told us to expect full content exams as normal next year. I am presuming that this is to make sure that the pupils don't make any assumptions, get complacent or prepare inadequately rather than because the school actually knows anything, or indeed that they think that's the correct course of action. I don't imagine anyone really knows what is going to happen next year. I am just hoping that pupild are able to complete the syllabi and that, whatever happens, Universities and employers make any adjustments that are reasonable. It is unfair to be disparaging about this year's results as whatever the rights and wrongs of the system, the young people didn't choose it. I don't want this year's Year 13 to be disadvantaged at all - I just don't want there to be knock on effects for the next year group. I would like to believe that the lessons of this year's fiasco will be learned and that next year will be better. I'm just struggling to have that amount of faith in our current political masters.

Me too. Highly dubious. I agree that the “Exams as normal!” message is a wise one otherwise kids will have got the (maybe false) message that they can continue to snooze till noon all year and the teachers will kindly issue 3A*s.

@mumsneedwine 🤗 yes, everyone needs to stay as well as possible. Not an easy task in schools. I’ve been reading the Ofqual stuff but don’t understand how the practicals are now going to be assessed.

@NotDonna nor do I - and I have to do it 😂😂. We can demo instead but at the moment our school aren't allowing those.
We are being all positive and saying exams as normal do let's crack on. While not believing a word of it. But what else can we do ?
Guidance is patchy, late and often contradicts previous guidance. Head of OFQUAL has resigned so hopefully we might get someone who can kick Williamson's butt into gear.