Geography at Oxford

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Ds has a change of mind regarding his A-levels subjects. But is also Limited to what he can do to constrains with school.

Atm he has further maths, history and physics.
He can do maths, geography and physics. But not further maths.

Does anyone know if one set of options is better to get a place to study geography at Oxford (his aim)? What he has found so far says he needs geography AND further maths which he can’t do....

Actually there are no subject requirements although it says most have studied geography
www.geog.ox.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/apply.html

I have two BSc geographers - Nottingham and Bristol amongst my children but neither tried Oxford. One did to A2 physics, economics and geography (and chemistry AS) and the other geography, history, economics (and music to AS).

I think if he intends to study geography, it would definitely be better to at least have studied it at A-level. Even if they don’t specify subjects, the vast majority will have studied geography and these are the students he’ll be up against. Further Maths (or any maths beyond GCSE) is not necessary, but probably useful.

Other subjects that would link well with geography would be politics, economics, history, sociology, anthropology - for a human geographer.

Or chemistry, geology etc - for a more physical geographer.

Maths is useful too for data analysis etc.

Would it not be rather odd to do further maths but not maths ?

Why does he think he needs further maths for geography?

Odd to do further maths without maths? Is that what you mean? Not all universities will ‘count’ it as a third A Level, it goes hand in hand with maths. It needs to be a fourth.

@Michaelahpurple, yes he will do maths AND further maths.

Re geography, he basicaly has been unsure what to do hence further maths and physics as he was thinking engineer route. Whilst actually been very attracted both by history and geography. A few months down the line, he now think geography would be better than history!

@SeasonFinale, yes there are no requiremenst. However, he also has asked some of his teachers (which have done geography at oxford) and all of the students they were with had done geography and further maths....
I suppose it's down to the competition level to get there. And he is trying to see what woud be the mix that is going to give him to better 'competitive advantage'

He shouldn't need to do FM if he wants to do geography as Oxford do say better to do 3 subjects well than risk dropping grades to do 4. However, if he can handle the 4 then I would do them especially as it would leave other routes for him open.

I do sympathise with the dilemma - we have also had lots of confusion about which 4 TH to drop, if at all, with various fears from me about closing doors.

I do think it would be better to study geog if that is what he now plans to read, but it is tricky if he isn’t yet certain

If geography is what he wants to study at uni, then to me it would seem odd not to do it for A Level. Especially if he wants to apply to Oxford where they interview. Otherwise how do you explain your “passion” for a subject you declined to study?

I suppose it's down to the competition level to get there. And he is trying to see what woud be the mix that is going to give him to better 'competitive advantage.

He really needs to be thinking beyond the competition to 'get in'.

He's committing to three years of studying a particular subject at undergraduate level. The two years of A Level Geography would enable him to make a smooth transition to undergraduate work - with a store of knowledge and the beginning of the necessary skills already behind him. As the university assumes the vast majority of students will have taken the A' Level they're not going to be offering introductory hand holding. If he were to be accepted he might well find it a struggle to keep up.

I thought FM was only needed for heavily maths based courses, like maths and physics.

To answer a few questions

• Yes he is doing maths and further maths
• His maths teacher actually advised him to do FM regardless of the other subjects/what he wants to do on the ground he would get bored otherwise. I tend to agree. I doubt this would affect his results.
• ds doesn't know yet what he wants to do. He had engineering as a possible choice when he chose his subject but he has deided not to do that. Finances and business still a possibility (and he will need FM for that?)
• His heart is with geography and history. He is a real independent learner and would have no issue proving that to anyone. He has been learning about both subjects (through any media from Youtube to documentaties, websites and books) since he was in primary and able to read....

Hence his issue is very much about trying to see if one option would be better for him than another...

@PerditaProvokesEnmity, I get what you are saying.
But, in most sic form, students don't always get the choice they want. Ending up studying history when you wanted to do geography isn't unusual. That's why having done geography at A level isn't always part of the subjects students have to have.
They do need an essay subject for obvious reasons.

I'm not worried about the need of any hand holding. I think he has proven already that he can doesn't need that (back story here linked to him moving school and the two schools not having done the curriculum in the same order)

My twins both did history and geography A levels (they both went to Bristol and didn't try Oxbridge and one until this month when he finished read geography BSc) and I think that is a good combination. Maths is certainly useful for geography. My son was actually quite good at maths so despite not doing A level found the maths bits of his BSc not too bad but I am sure Oxford will like people who are very good at maths and have further maths too.

I think economics is a good one if he is interested in that (although it not a traditional "facilitating" subject but still well regarded as fairly hard). One of my lawyer daughters says it was the most relevant and interesting for her career of all her A levels.

Ending up studying history when you wanted to do geography isn't unusual

No but applying for a geography degree without the a level is very unusual!

That’s why I was asking @titchy.

My question was very clear. Is it better to do history plus FM or just maths with geography??

Because ds understanding is that, at Oxford, they look for FM too...
And he can’t do both.

You don’t need Further Maths to study geography at Oxford. If he loves geography, he should take geography, maths and one other.

Your question is far from clear! What are his options? Maths, FM, Geo and History? Or another combination?

Why does he think he needs FM for Geog?

As linked to by SeasonFinale upthread (well, this bit is from the FAQs, but it says the same thing):

The School of Geography and the Environment admits approximately eighty students to read geography each year. For candidates offering A levels, we normally expect A AA. The A may be in any A level subject. We do not have any preferred A level combinations and there are no required subjects. Taking Geography at A level is not a requirement, although nearly all candidates will have taken Geography. We do not accept General Studies as a qualifying A-level for admission. The School also accepts candidates completing the International Baccalaureate (IB), Scottish Highers/Advanced Highers and internationally-recognised equivalents of A-levels

Absolutely nothing about Maths, let alone a requirement for Further Maths, not even but we find that most candidates offer both Maths and FM, let alone and although we say officially that we have no preferred subject combinations, actually, if yours doesn't include FM, then stroll on...

But they do say that most applicants do offer Geography as one of their subjects and if one apparently has a burning passion to spend three years delving into the innermost reaches of a subject at levels 4-6 at the most prestigious place on the planet and has the opportunity to study it at level 3 for the two years between GCSE and university, but turns it down for a quite different subject combination, that might take a little explaining in one's PS and reference. Possibly not such a strange thing in a mature applicant with A level choices long past and a few years in between to develop other interests, but a little odd in someone following the 'normal' school - university path.

It's a bit dated, but there is a FOI request that provides data on the A levels of all geography applicants between 2013 and 2017: www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/geography_undergraduate_admissio#incoming-987906

According to the data they provide, in that five year period:

1036 applicants had A levels as their main qualification.
762 were shortlisted
288 received an offer

6 did not have geography A level (2 of these did have geology)
4 were shortlisted
1 received an offer

33 applicants had FM A level
31 were shortlisted
15 received an offer

So, during that period, it was very unusual for an applicant not to have geography A level. The one person who received an offer without it is very, very unusual, not just because they did not have geography A level, but also because their A levels are shown as just being Maths, FM and Physics.

The small number of applicants who took FM were more likely to be shortlisted and to receive an offer, but not having it certainly did not stop people being made an offer.

I wouldn’t have expected many geographers to have FM. No disadvantage though certainly .

I was more interested in your comments about Engineering. More and more engineers are solving environmental issues by engineering solutions. The geography course at Oxford has environmental science as an integral part of it so geography can go in that direction if he’s interested. I would still look at Civil Engineering with Environmental Engineering though just to make sure he really understands the choices.

Engineering at Oxford can produce city types who never engineer anything! Look at Sheffield, imperial, Bristol and Nottingham and others in the top 10 to see what they offer. Maths, FM, Physics and Geography would be perfect.

I did a geography degree without having A-level. I now teach it! I had interviews at Cambridge and offered a place at Bristol. I the end my A-levels were a car crash (one of the reasons I wanted to do Geography). If you want to do BSc with lots of physical geography, then sciences are useful. Physics and maths particularly for any meteorology modules. I did sciences and then human geography, so completely broke the mold!

Geographers have skills in a wide range of subjects, any academic A-levels will support. Interest in history does help to understand some geography (and vice versa). I don't think Further Maths would really add any benefit.

Geographers are highly employable with a fantastic range of skills.

Can’t he change college to somewhere that offers the timetable combination he needs?

Maths, FM, Physics and Geography would be perfect.

That would have been his perfect combination....

@Phphion, yes that confirms what he read. He would need geography but FM would be an advantage....
That’s even though there is no requirement to have done geography, even though it’s preferred.