Think DD has failed? Unsure what to do to support

[MintyJones]

Just after some advice if there's any to be had!

DD has just received her dissertation grade. It's 55. She has two outstanding pieces of work which are yet to come back and are currently being assessed. She thinks they won't be good enough to bring her up to a 2.1. And crucially- she needs this 2.1 - she's about to start work in the public sector - a graduate programme with the entry requirement of a 2.1 (its the police btw)

She has always worked hard for what it's worth. And her first two years she cane out with a 2.1 each year - year 3 had been a different matter - some 2.1's and a couple lower. The uni had two long strikes and obviously the impact of corona virus too.

It's ooh these me asking her if she could have done more. I always saw her working away! She's never missed lectures (when they were on!) and had good relationships with her lecturers

So ... what do I do? Anything I can suggest to help?

I've told her to email her tutors which she's done. One said he was 'busy' and ' can't help anyway as you need to see what your other two pieces come back with' and the other has yet to respond. I've told her to try and work out what she needs for a 2.1 - but I don't really understand how to work this out myself and she didn't seem too sure either! I've also said the usual platitudes

Now I'm at a loss. She's in absolute floods and I want to help - I'm very practical! - but I'm not sure what to advise if anything at all. I didn't personally attend uni so all I know comes from her

Thanks in advance for any pointers - even if it's just reinforcing what I've said already - which is basically ' let's wait and see'

@Embracelife I'm really calm - part of my nature! Unsure where you think the panic is coming from ..

However, for her, it's a big deal. Of course it is - she's worked hard and she wanted a 2.1 for her dissertation so she's crushed she didn't get that. Telling her right now that 'it's no big deal' probably isn't a wise move.

She's bounced back today (for now) and is just waiting and seeing what the next stage brings. There's been some great advice on this thread and I'm grateful to everyone who's taken the time to offer help or their experience.

Err apart from June2007. There's always one weirdo though

To be fair to June the title of the thread, which is what people read when they decide whether or not to click on it, does say 'fail'. Then the first post talks about possibly missing a 2:1.

@titchy and that's probably why people should take the time to read through a post with 100 odd posts on it before contributing with something really stupid.

I know on MN we have to carefully choose words because some people like to seize on absolutely anything and twist it but the word 'fail' is just a word. People really should have the common sense to realise I'm not standing over my daughter poking her with a stick and screaming she's a failure! It's how SHE feels, not me.

I just think your heading is very negative. I get she wanted a 2.1 but it seems there are options with 2.2 and your probably best encouraging her with that so she know doors are open either way.

My daughter is at Brighton, I'm guessing that maybe your dd is on the criminology course there? My dd is in a different subject area but she as a two year is well aware what the no detriment policy is and how it affects her grade. Because of the strike she's worried that some of her essays may not meet her usual standard but she's been able to work out what she thinks she's going to get for the year and what she's then going to need next year. Your daughter really should be able to work it out.

@zeeboo no she's not doing criminology. But yes she needs to definitively work it out that's for sure

If it'll attach op, I'll upload my uni's way of marking. It may not be the same but it might help? imgur.com/a/nXYrMPR

unigradecalc.com/

This might help too - the module guides for each module have details of any weighting (as does the assignment bit on Canvas)

If she plugs it all in there it might give her a better idea?

I used that calculator and it is accurate. I then took my grade for second year and worked out what my grade was at 25% for second year and my third year grades at 75%. Add the two numbers.

For example, I finished level 5 at 68% so worked out 68 percent of 25 for my second year %

Assuming your uni is 25% secondyear and 75% third year.

It's got me on 71 right now but this last grade will bring that down 😐

They're notoriously harsh markers. Gits

yes I get it s a big deal. She "wanted" and expected. She doesn't yet know her overall grade.

But life will throw disappointments at her from time to time.
Ultimately if police want her they will take her even if she has to go in the 2.2 entry set. Long term it won't matter if she is hard working
So she has to say OK if I end up with 2.2 will I maybe accept the other police entry programme? If that is what they say?
Is that OK?
Surely yes

They are easy to get a hold of and will talk her through how her degree will be worked out and what changes are in place in response to COVID

They are also flat out getting marks ready for Exam Boards for all years in a degree programme. They may not have the time to talk through individual students. As P have said, the way that final degree classifications are calculated will be published and available publicly on the university’s website. This is what you can do to help.

There are likely to be some differences across UK universities, so take assertions on this thread with a pinch of salt.

And the apparently “unhelpful tutor” was simply stating the facts. Unless there are clear mitigating circumstances not covered by most universities’ “no detriment “ policies in relation to COVID-19, there isn’t anything to be done about one Mark.

Has your daughter received narrative feedback about her dissertation? It sounds as though she had a lot of support from her tutor for it. The dissertation is the culminating demonstration of a student’s independent learning - where they show how they put into practice what they’ve learnt over their degree. Students generally can drop a few marks - it’s a tough test of their learning. As it should be - it’s an important indication of “graduateness”. And sometimes - hard as this is to deal with - effort doesn’t always equal achievement. I’m sure we’ve all experienced this.

Universities used to offer viva voce to borderline students, an interview / presentation / oral exam that could tip the score up if impressive. Worth asking if this might be available?

I suspect June is upset about her third. I’d not take it to heart op.

As a complete aside, I always find these threads strange when posters declare that she should be sorting it out herself as if as a parent you should have no interest in providing advice and helping the minute they leave home. I am 42 and still seek and take advice from my parents now and I have a successful career and 3 children of my own.

I guess it depends on what you do yourself. I never spoke to my parents in any detail about my degree. The odd update - I told them what grade I got for the year, but not individual pieces of work. Same for my work life, really. I would probably expect my children to have a similar level of independence, but as the eldest is only six, who knows?!

@SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito

I guess it depends on what you do yourself. I never spoke to my parents in any detail about my degree. The odd update - I told them what grade I got for the year, but not individual pieces of work. Same for my work life, really. I would probably expect my children to have a similar level of independence, but as the eldest is only six, who knows?!

See I don’t see it as not being independent, I see it as sharing worries or issues with people I am close to. Just as I would with a friend. OP’s daughter is concerned she is not going to get a 2:1 and that is what she is sharing. OP wants to tool herself up to be able to give advice. I would do the same for my children. Problem shared etc.

@catandthefiddle oh absolutely. That's life isn't it? You put in effort and it doesn't translate necessarily to what you feel you deserve.

Oh she's independent alright. No concerns there

I suppose I'm just one of those parents that will add support and help where I can if asked - or even if not asked! 21 or 31 or whatever - I'm there for any advice I can give and where I don't know the answer - like now - I endeavour to educate myself so I can at least have some clue what I'm saying when talking with her

I'm ancient and my mum and dad helped me in all manner of ways right up until they died last year. Sometimes you just need a 'proper grown up' to help you navigate life

@SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito but you'd want your kids to be able to express sadness and troubles to you wouldn't you? You'd rather know what's troubling them than not I assume? Regardless of age

@Bluntness100

Really hope your dd gets good news, Op. It is horrible watching your child be disappointed in an important result, whatever age they are.

I remember a couple of years ago starting a thread about financial issues that my my then 17 year old had with an ex friend's mother refusing to pay her money that she owed and I was told that it was none of my business 😂

I think it’s about the nature of the help and advice a parent can give to her child (Who is legally an adult) in relation to third parties. A parent can be a sounding board, she can look up e animation regulations and be a cool head in advising her DD in navigating university bureaucracy. But she can’t intervene directly with tutors and do on.

And actually the student herself is unlikely to be able to do much more re. the dissertation mark. Certainly in my department, we mark dissertations very robustly. We do a benchmark exercise of a few random dissertations to ensure we’re all working to the same match of achievement, criteria, and numerical grades. We then mark a bundle, anonymously. We don’t mark the dissertations we supervised. Then each bundle is second marked. If the two markers diverge more than a few percentage points, there’s needs to be a documented conversation about an agreed mark. We generally do that by email. Then the overall module convenor does a check of all feedback and numerical marks to ensure they’re consistent and also does random sampling of around 20% of the whole cohort.

Dissertations are then looked at by our External Examiners - they generally sample a few from each class mark.

So a dissertation could be read and marked by up to 4 people and any major differences in numerical marks or narrative feedback are looked at carefully and reasons for the final agreed marks are documented and submitted to the External Examiner. We do this in a 2 week turn around for about 150 dissertations. It takes a big expert team. We are very experienced but even so, all of us have our work double-checked.

So if your D’s dissertation went through a process of two markets agreeing a grade and the External approving this, there is probably little she can do.

55% is a pretty clear 2,ii And 3 marks below her Term 1 average of 58, so it doesn’t look hugely out of line with her level of achievement in final year.

I don't know to be honest. Of course I would always be happy to listen to them but I'd also respect their choice if they wanted to keep themselves more private. I think I'd be fine either way.

Just to clarify, I don't have any issue with the op here, she seems really sensible and just trying to get some info on a topic she isn't overly familiar with, so that any advice she gives makes sense. (That's my reading of it, anyway!)

But I've read threads on here before with parents proofreading their adult children's uni essays, trying to contact uni tutors and student services on behalf of their 19, 20 year old children, and that just seems bizarre to me.

Yes it is bizarre, @sirsamuel and parents are trying to require academics to break the law. I once had a father - a solicitor no less - laugh when I mentioned the Data Protection Act (as it then was) and continue to try to intervene in the way we were teaching his daughter. Outrageous really.

@PrincessButtockUp

Universities used to offer viva voce to borderline students, an interview / presentation / oral exam that could tip the score up if impressive. Worth asking if this might be available?

That’s never been something students can elect for. It is something examination boards can ask for to help them make a final decision, but it’s not done very often.

IME exam boards are very keen to give the student the benefit of the doubt wherever possible (indeed, increasingly so in the current HE climate). If there’s a way to award a 2:I, they’ll award it.