Think DD has failed? Unsure what to do to support

[MintyJones]

Just after some advice if there's any to be had!

DD has just received her dissertation grade. It's 55. She has two outstanding pieces of work which are yet to come back and are currently being assessed. She thinks they won't be good enough to bring her up to a 2.1. And crucially- she needs this 2.1 - she's about to start work in the public sector - a graduate programme with the entry requirement of a 2.1 (its the police btw)

She has always worked hard for what it's worth. And her first two years she cane out with a 2.1 each year - year 3 had been a different matter - some 2.1's and a couple lower. The uni had two long strikes and obviously the impact of corona virus too.

It's ooh these me asking her if she could have done more. I always saw her working away! She's never missed lectures (when they were on!) and had good relationships with her lecturers

So ... what do I do? Anything I can suggest to help?

I've told her to email her tutors which she's done. One said he was 'busy' and ' can't help anyway as you need to see what your other two pieces come back with' and the other has yet to respond. I've told her to try and work out what she needs for a 2.1 - but I don't really understand how to work this out myself and she didn't seem too sure either! I've also said the usual platitudes

Now I'm at a loss. She's in absolute floods and I want to help - I'm very practical! - but I'm not sure what to advise if anything at all. I didn't personally attend uni so all I know comes from her

Thanks in advance for any pointers - even if it's just reinforcing what I've said already - which is basically ' let's wait and see'

With sussex uni if she got 58 for semester 1 the lowest mark she can get for semester 2 is 58. It doesnt take into account second year.

Providing of course she passes the other 2 modules. But this is still dependent on their mark

Its the same with brighton, it takes into account the work they have done up to march, averages it and this is the lowest mark she can get

But both dont use 2nd year work.

Ok so then that makes sense

She can’t do worse than 58 in her year three. Got 66 in year two.Say year two accounts for one third, and year three two thirds, then she would have an average of 61. Which is a 2:1.

And she would be fine.

If she got an overall 2:1 in second year (first year usually doesn't count) and she has 2:1s in her other modules, a 55 is really unlikely to drag her down.
I got some 60s and 70s and even some 30s in my third year and ended up with a 2:1 overall (albeit by the skin of my teeth - 59.5 rounded up to a 60!)

I'm just trying to find out a definitive ' we work it out on the grade for year 2 and the first semester of year 3' and can't see that.

Because with year 2 ending on 65.7 and year 3 first semester on 58, this would mean she's scraped it without taking the dissertation into account

I think

From another point of view; rather than hiding something or being unable to grasp the marking scheme, maybe OPs DD has been ‘rehearsing disaster’ and is too anxious to look at or take in any of the emails because she has convinced herself she has ‘failed.’

I did this in the past (a lot in my teens/twenties). I’m more resilient now but I wish I’d tackled this part of my character earlier (CBT or something) as it’s an unhelpful pattern to fall into and wastes so much energy!

I hope your DD gets her 2:1. And it’s horrible when you want to help your kids but can’t so for you too OP.

It is such a "girl thing" to be so afraid you have failed that you can't read stuff objectively!

It looks like there is every reason for optimism - if the mark for Y3 is 58, in view of the impact from the strikes it is really unlikely that she will need a higher mark than in a usual. As the dissertation was good enough to pass, the actual mark she got for it should make no difference to the class of her degree.

GOOD LUCK!!! Let us know what she gets (fingers crossed!)

And cake and flowers for all at this stressful time

@Gunpowder thank you for that.

No she's not like that either! She's a very straightforward person and she truly believes she's given this her all and she was expecting a good dissertation mark as she was proud of the work.

Which makes it worse for her really! It's one thing to think you've not done so well and then get a grade that reflects this, and something else to think you've done well and get quite a shock!

Oh I’m sorry OP. That’s really tough! I hope it works out for her.

@MintyJones I haven't read the full thread and at a tangent to the discussion but are you sure she needs a 2:1 for the police? DS has a 2:2 and has been accepted on the graduate detective programme

Dont worry. She can take any civil service job and then bypass the 2:1 requirement. You dont need a 2:1 to join thr fast track civ service streams if you are an existing employee

@dogwithmohican I believe so yes. Certainly from what I've seen

There's the apprentice scheme which is 3 years and for those without a degree

Then ' Police Now' which requires a 2.2

And then the grad scheme which requires a 2.1

@Mintydog They must have changed the requirements as DS is not going through Police Now

Op

Normally a degree will use both yr2 and yr 3 results. Its normally 50/50 but can be weighted. Your DD will know how much each module contributes to her final mark. Every single year the degree result is calculated based on yr 2 and yr 3.

Currently there is a no detriment policy, so the average mark for yr 3 semester 2 cannot be lower than the average mark she acheived in semester 1 - 58. This should work out her yearly average should be no less than 58

So your Dd will get at a minimum 58 for yr 3, and 65 for yr 2 - i.e. a 2.1

If you google the uni shes at and no detriment policy theres literally pages of information on it explaining how it works.

However she still needs to pass the other assignments. Providing theres no extreme weighting, and she passes she should be fine.

I’m a university lecturer and I don’t know any university that doesn’t have some form of no detriment policy due to covid. Either a safety net meaning they can’t drop a grade or a chance to resubmit work uncapped. It’s often difficult to find the information. She should contact student support rather than academic staff as they tend to be the ones that deal with mitigating circumstances- our hands are usually tied unless student support step in.

Dissertations are second marked. My proposal got 68% with two areas in the rubric graded as first class.

My final dissertation result was also 68% and those two first class rubrics graded 2:1..

The title (which didn't change) and my communication was also downgraded to 2:1

My writing style is my writing style (the communication rubric) it is my belief that the second marker didn't think those rubrics were 1st class and so after discussion between markers they were both graded 2:1 yet essentially hadn't changed from when both were classed as a first in the proposal.

It's not ALL down to what your supervisor thinks. Nor has my uni implemented full no detriment so in one module we are being held to the same standard as though we had been taught as usual.

I'm hanging on a 2:1/1st knife edge with a massive delay in the final module grade being released for reasons I suspect have something to do with the exam board (the hastily rearranged assessment really doesn't come close to the LOs of the original module).

It is what it is, some have done well from no detriment, others not so much. And as I said the dissertation is double marked so whatever her supervisor has said doesn't always mean it plans out the way you think. My feedback was "excellent discussion and title!" Excellent means first class but it's obvious the second marker didn't agree 💁‍♀️

Also IME - but try not to take it as gospel as I may have just got lucky, but examining boards tend to be a bit more generous. Twice now my final results transcripts have give me higher module % than the tutors originally gave me. Not massively but a 64 was actually 66 and a 68 was 70.

Zippy, that's interesting. We had to petition for ANY form of no detriment. What we have been given is our lowest performing 20 credit module being dropped IF the module was done in semester 2.

40 credits (which is from my research what most are doing, basically meaning your average from semester 1 cannot be lowered by any module completed in semester 2) will be considered if you drop 2 classifications between semester 1 and 2. So basically only if you completely bomb and that also includes the dissertation. Percentages ending in 8 will be considered for the next boundary (usually it is only % ending in 9) but you still have to have had most modules in the higher class in level 6. All sounds very nice but in reality it sounds more generous than it is.

My semester 1 average was 74, and the lowest semester 2 average I can get now is 60 so I wont be considered for the 40 credit drop. If I end on 69 I won't be considered for the upgrade because my level 6 grades have been 68, 68, 80 and an awful 52 (a direct result of zero teaching on the most heavily weighed part of the module).

If we had the full no detriment I'd have a guaranteed 71% no matter how badly I did in either semester 2 modules.

Both of which were weighted 70% and done AFTER uni closed for face to face teaching.

It’s logical you wouldn’t be able to drop semester 1 module if that’s lower- as COVID wasn’t impacting back before Christmas. Our policy is uncapped resits for any semester 2 or 3 module if a student chooses to undertake them.

Oh I agree that no semester 1 module should be included. It seems to me that we've been given a very watered down version of no detriment compared to most. They're calling it a "level playing field" which I don't think it is. I find it quite illogical to hold us to the same standard as if teaching didn't stop in March in one semester 2 module. It was drilled into us constantly how attendance is directly correlated with classification. Yes, well we couldn't attend!

We have no options to resit any modules either.

So let me get this straight you think a 2.2 is a failure? Please do not say that to your daughter what a disgusting attitude. Yes sometimes people want 2.1 for courses/ jobs but Desmond is perfectly reasonable degree and my Douglass is not a failure either.

I think a lot of people feel they failed if they don't get the classification they worked towards. Believe me I've had to give my head a few wobbles because I know i haven't failed, but i went in to get a first and I don't think I will.

She's already explained that all she meant by 'failure' was that she may have failed to get the class needed to progress to where she planned.

"Then ' Police Now' which requires a 2.2

And then the grad scheme which requires a 2.1 "

So worse case,scenario they switch her to the police now scheme.
So really no big deal.
She hasn't "failed"
You need to calm down wait for final result then speak to police entry people.

@june2007

So let me get this straight you think a 2.2 is a failure? Please do not say that to your daughter what a disgusting attitude. Yes sometimes people want 2.1 for courses/ jobs but Desmond is perfectly reasonable degree and my Douglass is not a failure either.

Have you read all the OP's posts?

@june2007 so let me get this equally as straight with you ... you're clearly an idiot and hard of reading comprehension.

Yes of COURSE I think she's a total failure - that's what the entire thread is about. Now, please, take yourself off this thread because any further attempts to get my attention will be ignored.