University 2020 :5: Results day approaching and beyond

[MillicentMartha]

Old thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3855474-University-2020-4-The-wait-for-grades-and-better-days-ahead?pg=40

Less than 3 months to go until we have a better idea what the future has in store for our DC. Let’s hope that even if most lectures are online that accommodation is open and they can move up, across or down to their university towns and start their student life.

We should have been in the middle of exams, instead we have this strange limbo of lockdown. It could have been worse, though.

[quote goodbyestranger]www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281[/quote]
Thanks!

That is heartening. A family member is shielding (and not following the rules🙈) so this is close to my heart.

I think in this context it does need to revert to Oxbridge. The point being put forward is that the schools like to be able to publicise their Oxford places (and who hasn't seen the pictures in the local papers; indeed some do this for offer holders too rather than those who actually get their place) and thus in larger year groups can "protect" their Oxbridge applicants probably safe in the knowledge that Oxbridge candidate with AAB may not get their place but the Manchester/Leeds/Sheffield/York candidate probably would with same grades. No one is ever going to argue they didn't deserve their grade because after all they are an Oxbridge offer holder. It may even be that they do deserve the grades but are they then protected by being ranked higher than someone who may be more deserving and that person is therefore the one in the line of fire should there be moderation down by the boards.

For the person asking about PreUs yes they are basically going by the same methods of standardisation but actually have to collect in the evidence pre submission.

I’m sorry but I disagree with you totally. Every year students miss their grades and miss out in their university place. It shouldn’t matter whether that’s Oxbridge or NewCityExPoly. Teachers should NOT be protecting any particular group however well deserving or prestigious the offer.
To do so is a disservice to all students.

errorofjudgment teachers have been asked to make a judgment call. A number of factors have to go into the mix. While you may disagree totally with certain teachers' weighting of things which might tip the balance in a particular case, it's not your call. No-one is actually saying that teachers will nudge all Oxbridge offer holders up: none may, a few may, plenty may, or the majority may - but in the latter three cases only those teachers will know.

Oxbridge does have its uses after all, eg www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281. It's not simply about being 'elite'.

@errorofjudgement

I’m sorry but I disagree with you totally. Every year students miss their grades and miss out in their university place. It shouldn’t matter whether that’s Oxbridge or NewCityExPoly. Teachers should NOT be protecting any particular group however well deserving or prestigious the offer. To do so is a disservice to all students.

Totally agree. Think it’s doing teachers a disservice to suggest that it might happen. Shocked really that people would think this was OK.

@goodbyestranger

errorofjudgment teachers have been asked to make a judgment call. A number of factors have to go into the mix. While you may disagree totally with certain teachers' weighting of things which might tip the balance in a particular case, it's not your call. No-one is actually saying that teachers will nudge all Oxbridge offer holders up: none may, a few may, plenty may, or the majority may - but in the latter three cases only those teachers will know.

Oxbridge does have its uses after all, eg www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281. It's not simply about being 'elite'.

I can tell you for a fact that the university that pupils are applying to should not be part of that judgement call. That is not “fair and objective”. Do you actually know of teachers that are doing this?

@goodbyestranger

errorofjudgment teachers have been asked to make a judgment call. A number of factors have to go into the mix. While you may disagree totally with certain teachers' weighting of things which might tip the balance in a particular case, it's not your call. No-one is actually saying that teachers will nudge all Oxbridge offer holders up: none may, a few may, plenty may, or the majority may - but in the latter three cases only those teachers will know.

Oxbridge does have its uses after all, eg www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53061281. It's not simply about being 'elite'.

Also @goodbyestranger if that elite comment was a dig at me then you’re missing the mark. I’ve never said that I don’t appreciate brilliant minds and hard workers. I do and I admire them and agree we need them, particularly in STEM! My point was only that this thread is for all and it was appearing to me Oxbridge centric, I’m not the only one who thought so. Everyone has a place and saying that does not take away from the achievements of the high fliers.

Like it or not I think there is a difference between those universities who are selectors and those who are in effect selected . Most of those which are massively oversubscribed which would include, for example and not exclusively, Oxford, Cambs , LSE, Durham , St Andrews, Imperial are much less likely to be flexible about grades in a usual year whereas those who are trying to woo students are more likely to accept a dropped grade particularly this year .

It’s not about teachers protecting the schools Oxbridge reputation but In reality who wants to be responsible for someone missing their grade. With an exam it’s on the student , if they have a bad exam that’s not the teachers fault , this year it is a huge responsibility to knowingly deprive an 18 year old of their much longed for place especially after the whole disappointment of this summer.

I am sure that teachers will be incredibly professional and independent but they’d have to have hearts of stone not to let it cross their minds.

If teachers do try to ‘protect’ their Oxbridge offer holders over other students, then that is simply disgusting. Maybe some awful, unprofessional, worst type of teachers who value their schools’ status over their own students’ futures might do so, but I have faith that most teachers are decent people who want to see all their students get the results they actually deserve.

Remember, that to guarantee an Oxbridge place by ranking someone higher than they deserve, they will be ranking more able students lower than they deserve. It would be quite frankly horrendous.

to guarantee an Oxbridge place by ranking someone higher than they deserve, they will be ranking more able students lower than they deserve.

I'm not so sure where two or more applicants are equal. The ranking thing is simply an Ofqual artifice.

@goodbyestranger

to guarantee an Oxbridge place by ranking someone higher than they deserve, they will be ranking more able students lower than they deserve.

I'm not so sure where two or more applicants are equal. The ranking thing is simply an Ofqual artifice.

@goodbyestranger - are you being deliberately obtuse?

The point is if you need to bump someone up to get the grade they need for their Oxbridge place then you either
1)have to bump everyone up consistently or 2)you have to bump them up over someone else.

Do you work in education?

a) It's certainly not deliberate. I also don't think I'm being obtuse. Ranking in this clinical way is a nonsense - it doesn't accord with real world classrooms.

b) I do, or did, up to a point. For some while :)

@MillicentMartha I think lots of teachers won't need to make that judgement.. The super selective schools are probably guaranteed the grades they submit especially if 99 of the cohort achieves A*B grades...

If you are a teacher at the run of the mill comp and you have one DC not off to Uni (taking an apprenticeship where grade required are low/irrelevant) and you have a DC with an Oxbridge offer the first one in 3 years... They are both A students but only one is likely to get the A because in the last 3 years the average grade was a B.. The Oxbridge offer holder needs the A* what are you going to do..? The student with the apprenticeship has the slight edge by 1% in the mocks...

Well let’s just agree to disagree then. I do work in the field and can say categorically that University choice had nothing to do with my issued pupils’ grades. Departmentally, it wasn’t even mentioned in our moderating discussions. And that’s the way it should be. Objective.

Anyway it’s all done now so we’ll just have to wait and see. There’s always October. Oxbridge isn’t the be all and end all. Getting a knock back can be the making of some people.

Oxbridge Oxbridge, I’m at it too now.

Let's just hope you're aspirational for your able pupils then Railingsohno, because you're not filling me with confidence right now.

Don’t worry I am.

Ok, well I'm now completely reassured.

@Railingsohno that is encouraging to hear. It does not directly affect us as DS1 is starting university in the autumn from a gap year and DS2 is doing GCSEs which matter, but not nearly as much. I have engaged enough in the situation to care about the fairness of A levels.

Every year Cambridge produces a list of the application centres showing number of applications, number of offers and number of students starting from those centres. Will be very interesting to see whether schools like St Pauls (28 offers, 22 acceptances), City of London (22/18) and North London Collegiate (19/15) show similar ratios for 2020. I expect Oxford produces a similar report and the schools will deserve censure if a higher proportion of their offer holders get the grades than usual.

Meant to link the report www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/undergraduate_admissions_by_apply_centre_2019_cycle.pdf

@Railingsohno thanks for your reason and inclusiveness.

@Railingsohno thanks for your support, I’m so shocked at some of the responses and justifications on here today
I appreciate it’s a stressful time but to say that those needing higher grades should be listed above those who don’t is outrageous!
There will be students accepting lower offers because of self doubt but who could get to higher ranked unis on the basis of their results through adjustment or a gap year.
But that relies on teachers being absolutely impartial and ranking them on the work they’ve been doing rather than the teachers perception of the worthiness and prestige of their post-18 choices.

@errorofjudgement.. So in my scenario above you would rank the apprentice above the Oxford offer HOLDER?

I'll be honest and state if I was a teacher in this scenario I would rate the Oxbridge applicant 1 and the apprentice 2.. If I did otherwise I would not be able to sleep at night.. Its a case of making the balanced decision sometimes rather than the black and white decision... There are shades of grey... I don't think I would sleep at night if I had ranked the apprentice above the Oxford offer holder..and the Oxford offer holder was moderated to an A grade... Two people continue in their given paths instead of one... They are after all both A* students...

And if that apprentice then got passed over for promotion because his competitor had higher A level grades? Remember, 75% of students get a 2:1 or a 1st these days. A level results can be the distinguishing factor. I can’t believe you really think a teacher should dishonestly prioritise alone student above another based simply one where they’d applied. I’m shocked and think it’s morally repugnant.