Cambridge: No F2F lectures until Oct 2021

[CamDram]

A senior tutor at Cambridge has apparently leaked the university's plans to deliver all lectures online for the whole of the 2020/21 academic year.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/19/cambridge-university-moves-all-lectures-online-until-summer-2021

To say my DC is unhappy about this is an understatement. It also means that the drama and sports scene she loves almost certainly won't be happening at all.
She now wants to take a year out and return in 2021 when she can actually have a decent uni experience. So far, she has only had one decent term at uni as her second term was disrupted by the constant lecturers strikes.

Apparently other unis will be 'broadly in line' with this.

Will your DC who have already started still go back next year?

As a lecturer, of course we want students to have a good experience and be safe but it is also my workplace. I have a right to be safe too. Students come in for a couple of hours and leave. I am in prolonged close contact in computer based area (same space) all the time. The risk will vary from course to course, institution to institution. It is a logistical nightmare in some of our buildings and I'm worried what the senior managers will come up with frankly.

I think the risk to teaching staff is far higher than to students and they have to be considered.

If my experience just before lockdown is anything to go by, I am quite concerned. We're not dealing with compliant children but independent young adults who can be responsible but often feel invincible and hand washing etc is impossible for us to police. It is entirely goodwill.

Oxbridge has huge endowments they can use for buildings. The vast majority of other universities have 50 - 100 year mortgages. Some sell part of their campus for private halls providers to build their own halls. Fee income doesn't go on capital expenditure.

If you're genuinely interested ITonya, which I doubt.

If you're genuinely interested ITonya, which I doubt

Why do you doubt? Because I'm saying something you don't like?

Last year the govt commissioned a review of tuition fees and I think if Brexit had not happened, fees may have been reduced to £7.5k anyway as that would make it more likely that loans will be repaid.

Now would be a great time to implement the cut. There is not a significant real cost as more students would repay the loans.

Tumtedum - I sincerely hope lecturers etc feel safe when seeing students in Oct or whenever. We have to remember though that by then the majority of adults will be back in their workplaces, commuting etc so none of us will feel 100% safe. It is the sad new reality

Why do you doubt? Because I'm saying something you don't like?

No it's because I and many others on many threads have given you facts, yet you ignore them and carry on criticising universities for not reducing fees/moving to online/ not giving minute detail as to exactly how everything will work in September etc etc. You seem unable to acknowledge and accept anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

criticising universities for not reducing fees/moving to online/ not giving minute detail as to exactly how everything will work in September etc

I'm absolutely sure I haven't done this. My daughters uni has been fab! I think a fee discount would be good and I refuse to believe lectures being online only is a better way of offering them.

Dd1 (first year, not Russell group) didn't have any strikes and all teaching had been online this term with her tutors and lecturers doing as much as they can. Loads of feedback too and online exams. She loves it there, I hope she can at least move back into her student house in October...mainly as she'll still have to pay rent!

This was me.

@Newgirls yeah I know.. I suppose I feel concerned because I'm a lone parent with some health issues and it was bad before lockdown in our place. No leadership. No support. I bought my own hand gel for students and wipes. Several came in coughing. One had had paramedics out it was so bad but didn't tel me until half way through a 3 hour session. (we all share equipment too)

I get that we all have to risk assess but I'm struggling to work out how, especially in my particular space. With unis, it's a mass population move from all over the country and world. Not like being able to judge based on local data.

Dunno what the answer is but I do feel worried.

I absolutely haven't been nasty at all. Don't be ridiculous. Obviously something I've said has really got to you. You need to take a long hard look at yourself and maybe spend less time on here.

I've looked back over this thread and there's absolutely nothing nasty from me. I'll wait for the apology @titchy

You need to take a long hard look at yourself and maybe spend less time on here.

I've been around the higher ed boards for a few years now and if I had to pick the one most consistently reliable, accurate and helpful poster it would hands down be titchy.

I hadn't noticed anything particularly nasty on this thread... up to this post.

Other threads the other Cambridge one for a start. Thank you Errol.

I'm sure titchy is helpful to others, but accusing posters of posting a "barrage of nastiness" is not on and completely untrue.

This thread is an example of people accusing others of ‘nastiness’ if they don’t agree with their point of view.

@titchy @ErrolTheDragon You have all made it clear that you don’t believe anybody should ask for free reductions or that they should at all be upset about how universities handle it.

Unfortunately for you everybody is entitled to their own opinions.

Anyway instead of this pointless back and forth I do wonder when other universities will announce what they plan to do.

I expect Oxford will announce within the next few weeks and most universities should announce relatively soon too.

I do feel for people who have paid for student rentals starting in July as many will want to be home at this time and their university town is probably not a very exciting place to be right now.

But if they are already paying for it then it may seem wasteful to leave it unoccupied.

I’m lucky my daughter has not had to deal with private landlords as many have not given any allowances during this time.

@cinammonbuns - Oxford sends out a monthly email to offer holders called 'Preparing for Oxford'. The last one was sent to DS1 on 18 May so I'd expect another one in mid June. Obviously they can send out information at any time they want but if I were them mid June seems like a sensible time if they can wait - leaks permitting...

DS1 seems quite OK with plans at the moment. The company (household name) I work for is definitely seeing things settling down in both of its major businesses this week.

@sandybayley My DD is at Oxford and she got an email saying the university will tell students about their plans for next term this week but they have not been very good at sticking to the deadlines they have set themselves recently.

I've no objection to people asking for reductions - a rebate for this term when tuition and assessment, despite the best efforts of the unis (well, maybe that depends on uni/department) tuition has been significantly impacted might be reasonable.

Anyway instead of this pointless back and forth I do wonder when other universities will announce what they plan to do.

Yes. I'd be quite surprised if most of them don't also go with online lectures just because it's the one obvious thing they can do which should have the least impact on the quality of the teaching (not no impact).

Then with the inevitable reduction in numbers of new students this September I'd take a guess that some of the lower ranked courses may need to make more adjustments which might have to include fee reductions just to get sufficient numbers. The original idea with tuition fees never was that everywhere charged the same. The abrupt change in supply versus demand will impose the 'market' which was supposed to have been created.

I never understood the idea that £9,250 was to be the cap and any university would offer lower.

It surely was predictable that all universities would charge the maximum they could.

However I’m not sure how effective lowering tuition for home students would be. Among my DD’s friends many of them see the student loan as money they will never conceivable pay back and so would not be enticed by a university that was less expensive.

However fee reductions at lower ranked universities could definitely have an effect on international student numbers.

@ErrolTheDragon, I agree with you. I think our DDs are at similar stages. Mine has her first exam shortly so I will need to get off the internet so she can download her paper.

To the PP who said that parents should equip their offspring with the latest devices etc., please enter reality. Like other posters here, we live in an area with appalling broadband. Online lectures for my DDs have been challenging and I have had to timetable my own teaching around their commitments. It doesn't matter who our provider is, the fact is that download speeds are terrible. There is no mobile signal here either ON ANY NETWORK. My DDs have decent data allowances, but are not using them much right now because they can't access it.

Older DD is a 3rd year at Cambridge. She has embraced online lectures. She understands it that for example cohort one will do their labs from 9-12, cohort 2 from 12-3 and cohort 3 from 3-6. They can choose when in the day to slot in their lecture depending on which cohort they are in, and can slot supervisions (tutorials) around too. her supervisions are mostly 2 students to 1 academic and she has planned them around my teaching this term due to the problems outlined above. The academics without exception have been really understanding and keen to help as much as possible. Does DD expect a refund or reduction in fees? No. She is getting what she is paying for, albeit not in the same format as that at the start of the year.

DD2 is also studying a science course but at a different institution. Again, academic staff have been brilliant. She has had online exams, lectures, tutorials and revision sessions with them and feels quite satisfied with their quality. Yes, she is missing out on the social side, especially because she is an able and very keen singer and that looks to be off for a while. However, as she points out, I am doing the majority of cooking and laundry. She has a large secluded garden where she can sit and work, and I even bought her a load of cider this week. What's not to like? No, it's not what she signed up for, but she is happy that her institution is doing everything it can under very difficult circumstances.

I think that when (hopefully) this is all in the past, we will be able to look back and think that those universities that planned for the worst were perhaps pessimistic, but much better that way round. A positive mind-set from students and their parents will help everyone. Must go, exam calling....

Re fee reductions, there are a lot of universities giving bursaries to attract good students. DS could

... have had £1,000 pa at Swansea or £3k cash at Leicester

I've no objection to people asking for reductions - a rebate for this term when tuition and assessment, despite the best efforts of the unis (well, maybe that depends on uni/department) tuition has been significantly impacted might be reasonable

I feel as though I'm in that Fast Show sketch where the woman says something and gets ignored then the man says it and everyone agrees 😂😂