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Higher education

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Original poster

Cambridge: No F2F lectures until Oct 2021

178 replies

CamDram · 20/05/2020 08:41

A senior tutor at Cambridge has apparently leaked the university's plans to deliver all lectures online for the whole of the 2020/21 academic year.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/19/cambridge-university-moves-all-lectures-online-until-summer-2021

To say my DC is unhappy about this is an understatement. It also means that the drama and sports scene she loves almost certainly won't be happening at all.
She now wants to take a year out and return in 2021 when she can actually have a decent uni experience. So far, she has only had one decent term at uni as her second term was disrupted by the constant lecturers strikes.

Apparently other unis will be 'broadly in line' with this.

Will your DC who have already started still go back next year?

OP posts:
Kittywampus · 21/05/2020 23:07

I think the milling around is going to happen whether lectures take place or not - in halls of residence, in the students union, in all the communal areas true to an extent, but not 100s of students at the same time, crowded into a corridor. Plus many students don't live on campus, especially in second and third years. So those students wouldn't be there if they didn't have lectures.

I think the idea is to minimise the risk, it won't be possible to eradicate it completely.

titchy · 21/05/2020 23:22

So they could raise fees, but don't have the ability to lower them

Hmm No they can't raise fees - not undergraduate ones anyway.

Seriously don't comment or suggest stuff if you know sweet FA about it.

ErrolTheDragon · 21/05/2020 23:22

Yes - lectures are the largest number at a time, and also the type of tuition which can be delivered online.

If the lecture theatres weren't going to be used for anything else then, as I think I said, it might be nice if a limited number could attend if they wished. But if the lecture theatres are going to be needed to accommodate some seminars or group tutorials which have greater need for f2f then we can't have it both ways.

RidingOn · 22/05/2020 00:10

Ime, it's not the online lectures that are the problem, but the technology we have to use to deliver our online classes and tutorials. We waste so much time with people unable to join the 'room' or losing their connections, or having a poor connection - really difficult if you can't hear each other when you are trying to teach/learn a language!

So my advice to parents supporting their kids through this is to equip them with the latest devices and make sure their Internet connections are up to speed! Also, make sure their IT skills are up to scratch, and they can type at speed.

And try to stay positive for them. My student son is saying that his youth is blighted, and I'm sure he's not the only young person who feels this.

Newgirls · 22/05/2020 08:29

With fatality and infection figs falling daily and the new international quarantine measures, the R by sept should be very low. I feel much more positive about the uni situation each day. Large gatherings like lectures online will help and we have to hope that intelligent adults will space themselves (mostly) sensibly. Localised infections on a campus site will be easier to identify and lock down now we all know what it is. We have to be hopeful

ITonyah · 22/05/2020 08:31

What about public transport getting to and from seminars? Loads of students who aren't on campus have to use this.

Newgirls · 22/05/2020 08:36

In the unis I know many are close enough to cycle - not all of course - but none of this is ideal

ErrolTheDragon · 22/05/2020 09:29

I don't think many use public transport in Cambridge (maybe from Girton and Homerton?)

The piece in the times yesterday said Bolton was going to be loaning bikes to students to help them avoid public transport, perhaps others will do likewise. Cambridge almost certainly has enough bikes already!

For others who do have to use PT... I suppose the same as anyone else going to work, masks and being responsible for your own hygiene etc, and I'd expect unis will have the nous not to schedule seminars such that many have to travel at peak times - 9am never was a popular time with students anyway.

goodbyestranger · 22/05/2020 09:35

So my advice to parents supporting their kids through this is to equip them with the latest devices

I mean yes, sure, if you've the spare money.

If your DS feels his youth is blighted purely on account of the current lockdown, no A levels and online lectures (as opposed to losing a close family member or friend to coronavirus or being seriously ill himself) then I'd tend to say that a more positive outlook will do him far more good than any swish hundreds-of-pounds latest device. And no, I don't think that view is shared by DD and her friends.

goodbyestranger · 22/05/2020 09:39

Ah sorry I see that you say your DS is a student RidingOn so I guess you mean a current not a prospective student. Same sentiment applies: my own current student DS also doesn't feel his youth is blighted, although he'd far rather have finished his third year surrounded by friends. Things are what they are.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/05/2020 09:56

At the moment, internet connectivity is a serious problem for some. If you've got a decent 4G signal then getting them a good amount of data and using their phone as a hotspot via Bluetooth can be a helpful backup.

Some of those issues hopefully won't apply so much when they go back to uni, at least.

RidingOn · 22/05/2020 12:12

Yes, it is what it is. DS is up and down - he knows he has no right to feel sorry for himself when people are dying.

And one of the most important things about this situation is that social inequalities will become even more marked, as those who live in well-connected areas (ie unlike some parts of Scotland) and those who can afford the latest equipment will have an advantage over those who don't/can't.

But mental health really is a serious issue among some young people, especially if they don't have enough support from family and friends.

bevelino · 24/05/2020 14:19

The cynic in me thinks Cambridge and any other university teaching online for the full academic year are only doing it because they can enrol international students and charge them the full fees.

sandybayley · 24/05/2020 16:17

@bevelino -Cambridge have not said they're teaching the entire year online! Only lectures. Please don't post inaccurate information as it upsets people unnecessarily.

bevelino · 24/05/2020 16:45

@sandybayley fair comment. I have no wish to upset or offend.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/05/2020 17:29

There was a letter in the Sunday Times today which was demanding lower fees for courses delivered online, disingenuously/confusedly/deliberately misleadingly entitled 'Cambridge must lower virtual fees'. While Cambridge was cited as an example of lectures being online, it seemed to be whinging about 'student experience' and 'social capital'.... I'm not sure those were ever what tuition fees were supposed to cover.ConfusedHmm And despite the title - which presumably was the creation of the newspaper - the signatories were mainly students (plus some parents) ... and of those who gave their uni, I can't see a single one from Cambridge making this demand.

Link to letters page (I hope), follows after a set about schools.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/letters-to-the-editor-please-spell-out-the-real-risk-to-teachers-of-reopening-schools-fmgs00gz2?shareToken=d3dea605dfbf75d4016392bd307e19b1

Gettingthroughtheweek · 25/05/2020 07:57

Cambridge have written to alumni explaining while lectures will be online, small group tuition - which is the heart of most Cambridge education - will be face to face and that they want as many as possible to be in Cambridge. Quite similar to the approach Edinburgh is taking. So I think most Cambridge students will get more value for fees than most.

ITonyah · 25/05/2020 08:45

I agree they should lower fees. I'm sure most parents and students feel this way.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/05/2020 08:46

Yes. And DDs department have written to their students re working out how to do labs - it is (as anyone would expect) still having the details worked out, I think.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/05/2020 09:09

I agree they should lower fees. I'm sure most parents and students feel this way.

It's almost certainly going to be costing the universities more, not less, to provide tuition under the constraints of social distancing. They will also be losing overseas students and a significant number of new students will defer. Do you expect the taxpayers to offset the loss in 'student experience' and 'social capital' of the more privileged half of young people? Or do you think universities should somehow cut their costs - ie lay off staff, probably resulting in poorer tuition and services?

I'm actually very sorry for the loss of student experience - DD and her pals should have been nearly done with their projects and looking forward to the joys of May week. But they seem to be stoically getting on with their work as best they can.

ITonyah · 25/05/2020 09:27

Yes, my dd is also being stoic. Doesn't stop her and I thinking a reduction in fees for next year would be sensible, if not at least to encourage teens not to defer.

Purplepooch · 25/05/2020 09:44

I absolutely do not think they should lower fees. They are being incredibly responsible in the face of a pandemic, and lowering fees would see universities go under.

@ErrolTheDragon I totally agree with you. Lowering fees would not be the right way to go. My DS totally sees this as well, despite missing out on so much.

ITonyah · 25/05/2020 11:10

If lowering fees for a year would cause universities to go under, then how are they able to build more and more impressive facilities and pay the top management so vastly much?

ErrolTheDragon · 25/05/2020 11:53

If lowering fees for a year would cause universities to go under, then how are they able to build more and more impressive facilities and pay the top management so vastly much?

My guess (though I don't know) is that some of them are quite heavily leveraged. Not oxbridge so much (though afaik the wealth belongs to a subset of colleges rather than the university as such) but some of the other unis. Loans for new teaching facilities and accommodation would likely be predicated on an income generated by overseas student fees.

Head honchos of various organisations taking pay cuts might be of psychological value but a drop in the ocean versus many thousands of students getting rebates and the loss of those overseas fees.

I'd predict that newspaper headline writers would come up with some very negative headlines if, as per their specific demand, Cambridge students got tuition fee cuts which other institutions couldn't afford.

shockthemonkey · 25/05/2020 14:29

Yes, @gettingthroughtheweek, you're right and Prof Toope also said that if at all possible they would very much like to get back to "mass lectures" earlier than anticipated... so you never know.

Not only are tutorials and seminars unaffected, but some courses are so small (AMES for instance), that there are usually only six to twelve students attending any one lecture. That would NOT be a "mass lecture", in my book, and there is room to hope that smaller lectures can still go ahead, as you can easily space students out safely.