Cambridge: No F2F lectures until Oct 2021

[CamDram]

A senior tutor at Cambridge has apparently leaked the university's plans to deliver all lectures online for the whole of the 2020/21 academic year.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/19/cambridge-university-moves-all-lectures-online-until-summer-2021

To say my DC is unhappy about this is an understatement. It also means that the drama and sports scene she loves almost certainly won't be happening at all.
She now wants to take a year out and return in 2021 when she can actually have a decent uni experience. So far, she has only had one decent term at uni as her second term was disrupted by the constant lecturers strikes.

Apparently other unis will be 'broadly in line' with this.

Will your DC who have already started still go back next year?

'Quite a lot' in London is nothing like 'most'. A bigger 'quite a lot' are in the south east - but if you're the wrong side of London then that doesn't make Cambridge commutable.

My DD, about to go into fourth year, is relieved by this. Her lectures are huge and she hopes this frees up space that can be used for small group working and she definitely hopes she still gets her labs. Obviously things may change but at this point she is hoping to be back in October.

@ErrolTheDragon I think it is very odd that you seem to want to make your own child’s opinions extrapolate to everyone else’s.
She may be happy with online lectures and obviously some will not be satisfied with them. My own daughter would not be happy if this decision was made at her own university.

Those not hard of reading will understand I didn’t mean all Cambridge students could commute, it was an exaggeration to state that for one hour of contact, paying for student accommodation may be more costly than simply commuting for some students. It seems you want to shut down anyone who is not happy with this proposal and unfortunately for you this is a forum where anybody can state their opinions so you state yours and allow other people to state their own.

I didn't see any mention of disinfecting between sessions. Presumably that would be necessary.

Or maybe we could assume that people bright enough to be at uni are capable of washing their hands and not picking their noses? It's not a primary school.

I do think that in reality a lot of universities will actually go back to face to face lectures some time throughout the next academic year. And hopefully students will be willing to communicate their opinions with the universities especially considering the amount they pay for university compared to others in Europe.

I do think when restrictions are lifted there could be a compromise whereby those willing and able to go to lectures can go and it should be recorded, live-streamed and saved online for those who are vulnerable or simply do not want to attend lectures. This is already routine in many universities but not in my DD’s university currently.

Or maybe we could assume that people bright enough to be at uni are capable of washing their hands and not picking their noses? It's not a primary school

Ha ha!

My own daughter would not be happy if this decision was made at her own university.

It’s virtually a certainty that all universities will have online lectures for semester one at least. Social distancing requirements are simply incompatible with normal packed lecture theatres. Manchester and Cambridge have just come out first (inadvertently in Cambridge’s case).

@WorkingItOutAsIGo I would absolutely be happy if universities partly compensated the lack of face to face lectures with more small group working but I doubt this will be what actually happens.

This would mean paying more academics for more teaching hours and I don’t think most universities can afford that especially with the looming decline in international students.

@AgileLass I was talking about Cambridge’s decision to make lectures online for the whole academic year. I understand the likelihood of semester one lectures being online.

I don't want to shut anyone down, cinnamon.

Obviously students will respond in different ways to this news, but at this point in time, universities preparing to deliver lectures online is pragmatic. Online lectures are not necessarily wholly negative, and there are ways to mitigate that further.

It's also perhaps more helpful to our youngsters to somewhat spin up rather than spin down this sort of information. We've had to deal with a few tearful phone calls at various stages of this crisis!

My interpretation is that in anticipation of the continued need for social distancing all lectures will be available online but that subject to the ability to confirm to social distancing smaller group discussions and presumably tutorials will still go ahead .
As a pragmatic glass 1/2 full person that seems an obvious and sensible way forward to me .
A recommendation to inform students prior to accepting an offer of how their education is likely to be delivered seems fair as that knowledge may influence decision making for some .

It's not a set in stone decision. The varsity piece says
'Benton adds that these decisions have been ‘made on the understanding that it may be possible to roll back from this position should social distancing measures be lifted and large gatherings permitted later in the academic year.’'

I personally prefer Manchester's approach to announce semester one lectures online and presumably review as government guidelines get updated throughout the academic year.

Personally I think it's psychologically better to plan for the worst case and relax when and if possible - the possibility of joy rather than disappointment iyswim.

Ironoaks ... I'd guess they're working on revising the risk assessments for lab work. The concept isn't new to them! When I did my chemistry degree in the dark ages we each had a good amount of bench space and our own set of kwikfit etc. Obviously some equipment is shared and some work is done in pairs or small groups - but lab coats and safety glasses are required anyway, you absolutely don't put your fingers in eyes or mouth ... it may not take too much more to get to acceptable standards. (Biologists and clinical students should be further ahead on the game I'd hope). In the physical sciences and engineering I'd guess there may be somewhat more simulation and data analysis type experiments in the mix than usual to reduced strain on labs. DD and her friends have had their 3rd year projects adapted along these lines.

That's just my semi-informed guesses, obviously - at this point the plans will be a work in progress because there's a lot of detail. There are problems but they shouldn't be insuperable.

I feel for the students currently in their first year. They've had their first year wrecked by strikes and now covid, and now their second year could be an online experience only.

Maybe they'll actually get to have a nice student experience in their third year!

As for commuting, it might be cheaper to spend a night in a local premier inn each week for a weekly tutorial than to pay for a term's accommodation.

My ds is Y12, I don't really know what I'd advise him to do if he wanted to go to uni in the autumn. On the one hand, what's the point of deferring, there will be no jobs and limited travel opportunities. On the other, what's the point of "going to" uni if all you are doing is sitting in your childhood bedroom interacting behind a screen?

My y13 is having a year out - this means if her results aren't as good as she hoped she can resist plus life may be a little more normal in sept 2021.

If u expect to live to 85, 12months focusing on being well, perhaps earning money and learning independent related life skills after a pandemic isn't really a big deal.

If she was half way through her degree I would prob still recommend the same thing

Had a discussion/catch up with our course tutors yesterday (not Cambridge - more a uni that MNers clutch their pearls in horror at their child considering but my course is vocational) and their answer was that they honestly do not know and are working on a number of possible plans - one that things start online, moving to face to face if things allow, one that they minimise face to face stuff so we would be in for limited things and online for others and one that we go back to business as usual.

I've already had discussions about suspending my studies for a year if schools are still a mess - and been told that the department would be totally happy to support me if I needed to do this, or that they would attempt to find me a part time solution if needs be to move my second year across two years - I guess one of the advantages of being at a university where recruitment is more of a challenge is that if you're a strong candidate they do tend to be very eager to keep you.

Certainly apart from the placement element of my course - the few weeks we went online (third term is just assessment so very little impact really) were fairly smooth and they've learnt a lot more about what does and doesn't work - although we are praying for an end to our emailed out joke of the week which is bloody dreadful (but appreciated in terms of the effort)!

Thank you ErrolTheDragon

We are expecting a considerable dip in student numbers in the 2020-21 academic year, as a result of reduced international students, year 13s choosing to take a gap year before university, and those opting to defer (though whether deferrals are allowed, or whether universities decline these applications is up to individual universities and faculties, and some may be told they will have to reapply if they want a place in the following academic year). The upshot is that next year (2021-22) will be a bumper one in terms of applications, and with some universities likely to go under as a result of funding shortfalls, students applying for 2021 will be fighting for fewer places and in a far larger pool than before. Worth considering if you are weighing up the options...

@janinlondon - an excellent point and so true

I think this leak/statement is way too soon to make a call on this - it seems to be aimed at reassuring international students rather than domestic students - all about money as per usual.

Dd1 (first year, not Russell group) didn't have any strikes and all teaching had been online this term with her tutors and lecturers doing as much as they can. Loads of feedback too and online exams. She loves it there, I hope she can at least move back into her student house in October...mainly as she'll still have to pay rent!

Yes I feel do sorry for dd2 and other poor year 12s currently facing a huge chunk of no teaching then having to face an absolute bunfight for uni places!

My DDs lecturers didn't strike either; the fact that the lectures were being streamed/ recorded anyway was nice for students who weren't comfortable passing picket lines.