University life for 'freshers' (2019/20) - first year campus life suspended, sitting out/surviving the pandemic and staying on top of studying [Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Previous post

Dd is a current first year and is thinking of taking a years interruption. Her BF is at Oxford and he’s thinking about enquiring about rusticating.

first years can defer as not started yet (or just cancel and apply again next year).
I am pretty sure second and third years can't do that, bar dropping out and then maybe no chance of continiuing in a year or twos time. So far less likely to be able to not attend, without having wasted a whole year 1.

As @JacobReesMogadishu said, it is possible in normal times to take a year out during a course. It is awful for all current students - the final year experience has been lost to one cohort, most of the DCs on here had to go back home just as they had settled well into independence and new friendships, the new starters are facing the possibility of starting university without being able to meet other people on their course face-to-face. I think the people who do not get the grades they wanted and do the autumn exams with an enforced gap year may end up being luckier than they think, particularly if the other universities follow the Cambridge policy and hold offers over to 2021 for those who do not meet their offers with the teacher grades.

The universities will not be able to afford to allow too many students to defer and the current Y13 is the end of the birth rate dip, so if many do defer it could get very competitive next year.

Oh, apparently it’s not been confirmed by the uni yet so still hope, she was just very upset at a rumour! 🙄

It’ll be so sad if our kids don’t get their full uni experience but it is what it is, we have to be safe.

One of the issues is is that if too many current first years interrupt for a year that could make a difference on results day for how many places are available at clearing. It’s all very well saying the unis want the income but their hands are tied by number of lecturers and availability of lecture theatres of appropriate size. You can’t just open the flood gates and take 120 students on a course which normally has 90.

So current year 13s may not have as much opportunity at clearing if they don’t get their results as they would normally.

And there may well be a trickle down effect for current year 12s who for 2021 uni entry find a cohort of current year 13s still kicking about applying for uni.

Universities are not obliged to allow anyone to defer or anyone to interrupt their studies. It will very much depend on the circumstances and policies of each university / course.

Not wanting to be taught online would meet none of the criteria for temporary withdrawal at the university where I work. Temporary withdrawal is a safety net for people experiencing short-term financial or health difficulties (including maternity leave and caring responsibilities) that clearly prevent them from engaging with their course.

Universities generally work harder to prevent drop out because it reflects badly on them. However, in the case of mass applications for temporary withdrawal from people who just don't think it will be much fun to be taught online for a term, it is entirely possible that some universities will reject these applications on the assumption that they will not actually drop out if it comes to it.

There is a limit to how understanding universities can be in these circumstances.

Universities need to get to be understanding - it’s hard for me to put into words the gulf between online and ‘live’ uni.

Then universities need to offer a reduction in tuition fees!
@Lilolily let’s hope it’s just a rumour.

There is an elephant in the room overseas students who will not be starting or returning in September causing huge monetary issues for unis. I can understand their parents not wanting them to be overseas especially with the talk about a second wave hitting us this autumn/winter.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/apr/11/universities-brace-for-huge-losses-as-foreign-students-drop-out

DS also doing architecture, he has struggled with online stuff, needing the creative buzz of a studio, workshop to fire him up. I would suspect that is the case with other degrees. His girlfriend is doing clothing design so works in studios normally. DS will go back because his girlfriend is there sigh.... how his second year will go, who knows.

I would suggest unpaid internships to get some experience to compensate for the lack of interaction with tutors in uni. if it comes to that.

@Benjispruce - I agree with the need for considering a fee reduction - DD2’s one timetabled lecture today didn’t happen - no communication, nothing......

I would suggest unpaid internships to get some experience to compensate for the lack of interaction with tutors in uni. if it comes to that.

But also difficult, if social distancing continues to be required - will employers necessarily have the physical space for an extra unpaid person any more than they have money available for an extra paid one?

Can we get real about the notion that tuition fees are in some way an hourly rate for services rendered?

That income pays (in part) the salaries of both lecturers and cleaners. It pays for the library and labs to be staffed and equipped. It pays for the security guards and gardeners, the coffee shops and canteens.

If there is a serious campaign to have fees reduced what will happen to the higher education sector? It will be decimated. There will be less choice for future students.

And for what? Possibly a few pounds less to repay each month when graduates (eventually) reach the income threshold (if they do at all) for repayment of loans.

Mines getting to grips with her new " virtual term " at Uni . She had an exam yesterday afternoon which I gather went reasonably well . She has some online lectures this week . She is sad not to be there in person obviously as I'm sure many students are . But looking forward to returning Sept/Oct and in particular moving into her new accommodation / houseshare in September .

Regarding Fee Reduction/Rebates:

In the big UK-wide economic picture for all industries, the Government needed to to take control of all of UK activity, ensuring food and medicine and care safely delivered to all, but also suspending all payments by all financially afflicted individuals, corporations and organisations. It is late but not too late to do this, especially for educational institutions. In this way, Unis can still have staff supported directly by Government with any other outgoings suspended under Emergency Covid-19 Legislation. These rules should also guarantee 'reasonable' rebates to all: not any 'library' overhead, but certainly something for in person lectures-seminars-tutorials and so on.

Only Government has the reach, the clout and the money to do this.

Regarding the Covid-19 'Educational Experience':

My daughter has missed out on a lot as a Finalist at Cambridge. But this experience may end up being the best education of all.

At sons uni. libraries, labs, studios all the first to be shut so presume will be the last to open. You can opt to pay full fees for this that does not mean the uni. will deem it safe to re-open them.

justasking see my previous as to how those aspects might be able to reopen with distancing in place (just my meanderings though!). The point being that a wholesale non paying of fees might mean no part of some universities will reopen because they will be insolvent. The downside to our kids in terms of loan repayments at some point in the future is in the scheme of things minimal

My son went to his office and measured approved distances for his staff, it is not workable for more than four in his office, which for him is doable. Where I work the desks are front to front with a screen up between them which is being assessed.

I do wonder if all offices will be able to achieve this.

Has anyone tried to get on to student finance website. I can't seem to get the right web address by logging in through gov.uk!

International and many home students self-pay fees and can rightly expect a reduction in fees for reduced ‘services’ provided. £9250 is a spurious sum of money bearing only a passing relationship to the tuition cost. Students subsidise other aspects of universities through inflated hall fees, which again only bear a passing relationship to cost. Where customers pay they expect to receive what they contracted to pay for.

baytree the fees don’t meet the running costs - universities rely heavily on external sponsorship and research funding to pay the bills (have close relative who is in charge of a university who is v illuminating on funding) plus things like income from letting out sports facilities, theatres, conferences etc

We have paid up front. It’s a sunk cost, one that we have budgeted for regardless. Those who have taken the loan have already factored in having to repay it. As I said any small reduction will make minimal difference to the repayment amount. The downside to the university is potentially far worse than the downside to the student

Surely you accept that students are not getting value for money @vancleefarpels? DD already lost all her tuition during the 2 strikes this year.

@bigTillyMint Did your DS see the email about collecting belongings by a date in July?

@Benjispruce is that since the one about them clearing rooms for the army? I’m sure they said in that one would keep till Sep

Just checked and it did say that...

Oh right, I’m sure she said she’d had one today about July. She’s out with the dog.

I don’t really think of it in terms of value for money in that way. Tertiary education needs to be paid for somehow- and that includes all the bells and whistles on campus. Back when I was a student the great British tax payer footed the bill, now students have to make a contribution by way of additional tax. It is what it is. The strikes were bloody irritating but we all have the right to strike. The impact of the pandemic really could not have been predicted and I’m very sure academics are doing their very best to provide some kind of service and that Management will be coming up with plans to provide a campus experience compliant with social distancing.

I come back to my central premise that the financial security of providers is in my view more important than the saving of a few pounds in repayments of tuition fee loans some way down the line for our students