Bristol or York for Politics & International Relations?

[MilouSnowy]

Bristol or York for Politics & International Relations?

London state school DN cannot make up her mind. Bristol (the city) would be the easier choice as it’s just London-lite, her words, not mine.
But she doesn’t want to make an important decision on the basis of just
lifestyle, at the same time she knows next to nothing about York, or how competitive the course is in Uni of York.

Not visited York.

She is very independent. Has quite an impressive CV already, for a 17 year old student.

She is desperate for an offer from LSE but that’s their most competitive course so she is trying to psych herself up to leave London.

I'm jealous. Not of the fear of flying

Every summer we drive from London to Scotland to do the 7stanes mountain biking and we vow to take the next year's holiday in the Lake District but it never happens. It's a real shame not to make more of an effort to visit more places. We will get there someday.

It's always mountain biking in Scotland and walking in Pembrokeshire in Wales for us.

Career wise it won’t make much difference. Bristol actually has a pretty generous scheme for widening participation but if students don’t choose if, they don’t choose it!

Also around 17% of DC go to private 6th forms so York is about the same as those educated in the schools. It’s a pity your DD didn’t look at the stats on this before making assumptions about who goes where.

If she wants a genuine mix of students at Bristol go into Wills or Churchill catered halls. Meals are eaten together and provide an opportunity to mix. They are at Stoke Bishop but if she doesn’t want Clifton or city centre “culture”, then Stoke Bishop works. Fewer students are out sampling the bright lights because it’s a bus ride away and a taxi back! Many students from there get the bus in to use the libraries. She won’t have massive tuition hours so work outside contact hours is often done in the library with friends. Coffee shops abound locally!

Bristol is more of a city university than York. Possibly fewer people from the North go that far south! Although DDs best buddy was from Liverpool. So never make up your mind about who’s there and where they come from. Wherever that is, they have all warned their places!

warned? Earned ...

I don’t know much about IR, other than years ago I studied at LSE and had several friends taking it. And when I working in an international job, I kept coming across LSE grads of all nationalities, which was a huge advantage.

I therefore wonder why the angst about state school/non state school. Even then I was the only Brit on my particular course, and DS, who also went to LSE, was also in a distinct minority, and indeed the only Brit on his Masters. Given the huge diversity, school background hardly came into play.

Bristol is far less diverse. DD, who is there at the moment, would agree with the London-lite. She wanted out of London, but not too far. We teased her that she was applying a ‘Waitrose index‘. And indeed the first thing we spotted when she went for interviews, was a huge Waitrose just outside the campus. (Times have changed. She shops at Lidl, and the only take out coffee she buys costs £1 if you bring your own mug.)

That said there are relatively few international students, though perhaps there are more in IR, and as a Londoner it is this diversity that she really misses. Good luck with LSE. It is tough. At this point, no news is (relatively) good news, as weaker applicants will already have been weeded out.

Once again thank you all so much for your help. I realise my DN's mental model of universities outside London is all wrong

Definitely should have done more research.

Needmoresleep LSE is the only place where she really doesn't care who else is going to be on her course or where they come from, if she is lucky enough to get an offer that is. If she stays in London she will be too busy with her current projects to even notice other students.

She knows LSE well and has friends there. She has done a lot of LSE masterclasses.

We teased her that she was applying a ‘Waitrose index‘. And indeed the first thing we spotted when she went for interviews, was a huge Waitrose just outside the campus.

Hopefully she will get a place at LSE then. You are giving the impression that the university element will almost get in the way of her social research and projects she is involved in. A key part of university life is building relationships with people in your halls or course, eating & socialising together, then going onto live together in the 2nd & 3rd years. She may find it quite isolating if she tries to throw herself into projects outside of university life & living in a cafe culture outside of London. I believe the life she is looking for may be more normal in London colleges where so many students live at home.

(Times have changed. She shops at Lidl, and the only take out coffee she buys costs £1 if you bring your own mug.)

£1and bring your own mug sounds good to me.

What I meant is that the unadulterated international feel of LSE is probably perfect for studying IR, and a huge advantage afterwards, if the aim is an international career. Bristol has a seemingly much lower proportion of EU/international students.

Actually DD is now happy outside London, and none of her close friends are from the SE. Equally most are state educated, whereas she went to a private school. They all grow up in bubbles. University is a chance to explore beyond.

That said DS, who was very into his subject was perfectly happy in his home city, on a course he really enjoyed.

And yes, the coffee is apparently good and the coffee shop close to the University.

LSE is the only place where she really doesn't care who else is going to be on her course or where they come from This really does puzzle me. You make it sound as though university is a social experiment for her and she will be maintaining a database on everyone she meets. Perhaps she should have applied to Oxford for PPE, as she could have mixed with a Nobel prize winner on her course or in her college as well as students from top private schools and the lowest of the low state schools.

Hoghgyni I am beginning to think you know my DN! That's just very funny and I will have to ask her if she keeps a database of people she meets, wouldn't surprise me if she did!

No, she means that at the LSE she would have no need to get to know anybody. She already has a strong social network in and around the uni. Can stay at home. It's luxury. And then as Needmoresleep said there's the very strong LSE brand in the area DN intends to work in.

Outside London, it would be exactly as you said above, she would have to build new relationships from scratch and that takes time. So a new city, new friends, cafe culture and wanting to volunteer outside the university. And staying on top of her studies. Just too many new things.

I wasn’t talking about ‘brand’. I was saying she would be meeting bright and motivated people from across the world, who would each have their own take on global issues and different cultural perspectives. And that if working in an international career, she might well find herself bumping into people, often quite unexpectedly, who she had studied with.

And that no one would care much at all about whether she had been to a state or private school. Small differences compared with the overall diversity.

Bristol has a seemingly much lower proportion of EU/international students.
When my ds went there (3 years ago) they were comparing how far they had travelled, it ranged from 12 thousand miles to 2000 miles in the main and not so many from the uk or eu. In his flat he was the only English one.

My Dgd has just got an offer for Bristol for an integrated Msc in neuroscience and psychology and is over the moon! She comes from one of the most deprived areas in the country and holds a contextual offer though she actually goes to school 37 miles from her home town ( state r/c school). Bristol takes about 25% State school/ deprived students and Bristol has a policy of mixing all classes of students regarding accommodation. ( Maybe why they select accommodation using a randomised system). Though obviously students like my Dgd will pick cheaper accommodation because finance really does matter, but, there are bursaries for accommodation and extra finance through scholarships etc. In her state school her friendship group ( 20 strong) consists of students from every type of background so she is used to mixing with all types and is not phased at all by the fact that a lot of 'Oxbridge' rejects ( she is one herself!😀)go to Bristol as they do to Durham! Because at end of day it does not matter about background if you are relaxed about making friends and used to mixing with all sorts.

We are going up for offer holders day to look around in April but she will firm anyway because it is the course and reputation for her field if study which is the main factor in her reckoning and not so much the people she will mix with. Furthermore anything will have the wow factor regarding city compared to where she lives!😄

Sostentueto, congratulations to her. My twins are a Bristol (as was their older sister) and all 3 have really loved it. They have all kinds of different friends. In my son's block at Wills Hall in year one for example only he and another boy were from private schools, rest frtom state. I love Wills as it looks like a really nice old building. I believe the man who paid to have it built had a son who didn't get into oxbridge and he wanted the hall to look like an Oxbridge college, complete with chapel and quad. My son made good friends there (his twin went to Churchll Hall near by) and I believe shares a house with his friends from that Hall. I believe Wills Hall has made a big effort to have a mixed hall of all backgrounds.

I think you still choose a hall or you did when my sons applied. My other son ciould also pick a quiet corridor etc which he did but then went to university and decided to be a bit more out going so sometimes that very sensible university policy doesn't quite work but it is still a good idea that they try to put people on a corridor who are either loud or quiet.

No way we can afford Wills Hall though it looks lovely! Dgds mum earns less than £13,000 a year for full time work and even with full bursaries well out if our affordable range. It's because we do not want her having to work mainly. It is doable if she worked I suppose.

I wasn’t talking about ‘brand’.

Needmoresleep, I was in hurry and tried to use a word I thought would capture everything: the very bright international students are there bc of LSE's excellent and enduring reputation in this field. And yes she's aiming for an international career. The home students are also exceedingly bright. DN has met a few and is in awe.

She self-taught Latin starting in Year 9 with the help of an LSE student she met at one of the after school projects she runs and went on to score top marks in GCSE. The LSE student gave her a hand-drawn map, his old school folder and a textbook (apparently long out of print textbook) and told her if she followed his map carefully when reading the folder and textbook she should get maximum points. He wasn't wrong. Is this spoonfeeding?

She has now said if LSE reject her she will go to Bristol then do a masters degree at LSE immediately after.

Sost your DGD won't be known as an Oxbridge Reject, but as a Bristol masters student. Nobody will care or patronise her about her background, because she holds her place on the same grounds as every other offer holder, their academic excellence & potential.

Bristol University may be less diverse than others but the city is absolutely not! So whilst there is 'cafe culture' in Bristol there are also some of the most deprived wards in the country. Having grown up in Bristol and lived in London I would not describe Bristol as 'London light' in the least - there is a very distinct culture in Bristol. I don't know York well (having only had some nice weekends there) but a quick google suggests the city is neither as 'diverse' or 'deprived' as Bristol. What is most important for DN? Bristol has a strong history of Community Action and social projects led at grass roots.

I suggest your DN should visit both, choose the one she prefers, and move there with an open mind.

Sostenueto

Well done to your Dgd. Very impressive. I know a girl who had 12A*s at GCSE and attended one of the elite girls' private schools in South West London who applied for that course in Bristol and was rejected, though I think her A Level results may have sagged. She took a gap year and is now in another good university.

The thing with my DN is that she sees university as a social experiment where she can "study the classes". For her, it is much more than just being able to make friends. She would like to recruit fellow students to help out at her projects. This is easy to do in London where she already works alongside students from UCL, KCL, LSE QM, Imprerial etc.

E.g. she runs a chess club with two students from Imperial. Both students from Imperial are Russian.

DS only got a grade 8 in Latin GCSE. Perhaps if he'd had a special map he could have got top marks, although he doesn't have a great sense of direction, so maybe not.

The thing with my DN is that she sees university as a social experiment where she can "study the classes". For her, it is much more than just being able to make friends.

I would have thought those two things will be mutually exclusive.

HuaShan, I would not disagree.

DD liked Bristol because Clifton reminded her of Camden/Islington. As it has turned out her friends are not from London, and she has discovered surfing and even went camping in November. (It was wet, well Bristol is wet.)

I did mean student diversity, where Bristol is noticeably less diverse than LSE or London, which may be a factor for IR students. In contrast Bristol’s community diversity, including a rural, coastal and market town catchments beyond the city, is a real advantage for medical students like DD. She even did some sort of community outreach placement with services heavily used by one ethnic group, whilst other placements can involve healthcare for the homeless etc.

And best wishes to OPs DD. LSE can be perfect for course focussed students, who enjoy the company of others with similar interests. Bristol, though, is a lovely city, though I know nothing about the IR course.