Oxbridge Aspirants: Sep 2021

[funkysatsuma]

Not sure if it's too early to start this thread in Nov 2019 :)

DS would like Cambridge Economics as the first choice. Would like to know where can we get some help to prepare for the ECAA test - appreciate any pointers/links. Thanks in advance

Yes, contextualisation does not identify this! And even should it be a consideration? Some people are bombastic and arrogant but still are very clever (can think of a few!).

Greetings! I don’t really belong here but have been through the process a couple of times with older DC and have a DD who is already keen on applying... for 2022 entry (argh!)

The “contextual” stuff to me is a very blunt instrument. They don’t care that the BME candidate has a teacher parent supporting him/her nor that the private school kid has worked his socks off to get a scholarship. The bottom line is the numbers in the boxes for each category. This means that people who are “non-standard” in any category will be unfairly advantaged or disadvantaged.

I am probably being unfair to read anti-public school bias into goodbye’s last post. Im sure she’ll correct me . I find it a lazy and depressing trope to trot out or more usually insinuate that public school educated children are arrogant and entitled.

For the 2021 aspirants, DD’s Offer holder facebook page shows a jolly healthy spread of state/private/international ( quite a lot of international) offer holders. Be positive, believe in your child, there’s much to gain from challenging yourself even if it doesnt result in an offer.

Private school kid has still had a privileged education though PantTwizzler.

Not disagreeing hobbema :)

Well I'd use arrogant little shittiness as a criteria Irma. I wouldn't want a tutee like that banging on in my room for three years letting me know how much they think of themselves. Arrogant little shits are possibly less likely to learn because they're too busy being pleased with themselves. They can also inhibit the learning of their tutorial partner too, which would be a huge bore for that person.

Criterion :)

Cross post hobbema. I absolutely agree and you're absolutely correct that I don't hold any anti public/ independent school bias. None whatsoever. I do think that rubbish schools are rubbish however and do a massive disservice to their kids.

But don't let a made up criterion about one child referred to stop you stereotyping.

Hugo you referenced an applicant whose scores were all above average in each element. You didn't state a school type. I said a) Hmm sounds unlikely and b) If correct, then there must be some other explanation because the rejection almost certainly wouldn't have been in error.

So not so fast on the accusations of stereotyping. Nowhere did either of us mention school type nor did I even imply it.

Absolutely correct it's not a criterion which would be numbered; less sure that the personality of an applicant/ suitability for tutorial teaching doesn't enter into the equation during post interview discussions.

Hugo I'm very well aware of how things have changed over the years indeed it was me who made reference to these changes ahead of interviews, if you remember, and well ahead of any feedback!

I'm not not for turning: I agree that contextualisation is a blunt instrument; I can't see why it shouldn't be used alongside interviews/ post interview discussions about the relative suitability of a pool of applicants. It's not simply numbers in the absence of a holistic look at each applicant and I suspect sometimes it's down to a question of getting a reasonably diverse group in each subject at each college, since that will be helpful to overall learning.

I simply don't understand the "25% of places for disadvantaged students" thing. How can one quarter of the cleverest young people be from disadvantaged areas/backgrounds? It just doesn't make any statistical sense. It pays no mind to students from blah backgrounds, spread around the country, who have no particular advantage but no obvious deprivation such as free school meals either. It means at a college accepting 8 students for History, 2 will be "deprived". And over the whole the year, 1,000 out of 4,000 will have a disadvantaged background. If you remove foreign students (paying megabucks) from the admission numbers, there is going to be a big squeeze on the "ordinary" applicant. No other university is suggesting that they will be doing this.

Hi all, I'm just checking in as DD1 has probably decided to try for Maths at Oxford.

Anyone know which colleges are good for maths? Anyone got experience with the joint Maths and computer science course? DD is considering this. She did computer science GCSE but isn't doing the A level.

I've booked for the open day on May 2 and started looking at colleges. I did physics at Hertford 30 years ago, but I'm guessing colleges have changed since then. I enjoyed my time at Hertford, and made some great friends, most of whom were, like me, from state schools. It would be good for DD to find a college with a similar mix of students.

There are some people who can take advantage of certain box ticking whereas they might not be the type the help is aimed at.

Well that's mine. However, the relevant criteria highlight the need to improve access to HE in certain locations. Therefore by offering my DD a place, the outreach scheme has achieved its aim (assuming she gets those pesky grades). It was always extremely unlikely that she wouldn't go to a top university given her background, but the knowledge that she was being encouraged to apply gave her confidence to aim higher. Her school will use her offer to encourage those from the intended backgrounds to also apply who previously wouldn't have known of anyone to get that far in the process.

I completely agree @IrmaFayLear.

It’s also clear that the burden of achieving these targets will fall disproportionately on different subjects. Eg they will be unachievable in Classics, which has a large intake, so other subjects will have to take up the slack.

@pourmeanotherglass ,70% of places at Oxford went to state school applicants so your DD will be in the majority ( if that can be said to even apply to such abroad church)! I guess there might be pockets for certain subjects eg Classics where that might not be so. Surely one of the great things about University is meeting people from a wide type of background ? Great fun investigating Cambridge colleges last year with DD and you have the benefit of inside knowledge! Exciting times for you and DD

Yep, I said upthread that I suspected that History, English, Law and PP(possibly without the)E will be the most affected subjects. You can manipulate a HAT test, the MFL test not so much.

That sounds awful, as if disadvantaged pupils are not deserving or clever. But the point is that I don't believe that one quarter of places should be reserved for a particular demographic, rather than a particular brain.

I read that Oxford are proposing to dumb down Classics and remove some texts have have been studied for 900 years to make allowances for state school children who haven’t had the opportunity to study Latin & Greek at A level. These students are not getting firsts so they have to change everything to give them a chance apparently. I’d imagine a fair bit of re-gig is going to happen if lower ability students are gaining places.
Oxbridge will lose its brand. Already, In the most selective London private’s, the brightest students are targeting MIT, Caltech etc and only have Oxbridge as a back up. I was amazed to discover this and had no idea of how popular the US universities are.
The elite students in Westminster, Eton and St Paul’s are now all target the US. Oxbridge is second rate in their minds (or rather In their parents minds).

Evitosop DD4 has a place for Classics. The last student to go from her state school to read Classics (and was a friend of an older brother) went to a college with a top reputation for the subject, got a first and also a fully funded PhD.

I'll pass on that info to DD4 though. She didn't get the impression from her interviews that they were asking noddy questions, but possibly that's because she's not very bright, since I didn't pay for her education.

Oxbridge numbers at Eton are holding up but the real story is the ever increasing number of boys who aren't bothering to apply and are going for Ivy League and its a trend that is set to continue.

Evitsop - they aren't planning to take Homer and Virgil out of the Degree, just move those texts to the later part, after the initial exams - it's a reshuffle, not a dumbing down, and it may not even happen, anyway.

If anyone has any questions I can help with, I have one DC who did Maths at Cambridge (albeit a few years back) and another currently reading Classics and Oriental Studies at Oxford. FWIW, I've been incredibly impressed with Oxford - lots of contact time, very close eye being kept on attendance etc, heaps of supervision and input from tutors. DC is exhausted but absolutely loving it. Certainly no evidence of any dumbing down - in a term and a half he has already covered an incredible amount of ground.

Are the texts going to be compulsory?(if it happens..)

I would think so, in some form. It's hard to imagine a Classics degree that doesn't include Homer and Virgil!

Interesting re the possible changes to Classics. Great headline here (but article paywalled): www.thetimes.co.uk/article/homer-phobia-oxford-considers-making-iliad-optional-shj7lr6zg

Pupils from elite private schools going to US universities isn’t a particularly new thing IMO.