Oxbridge Aspirants: Sep 2021

[funkysatsuma]

Not sure if it's too early to start this thread in Nov 2019 :)

DS would like Cambridge Economics as the first choice. Would like to know where can we get some help to prepare for the ECAA test - appreciate any pointers/links. Thanks in advance

[Baaaahhhhh]

DD was pretty stressed over the weekend in anticipation...... then just to add to her anxiety she booked her first ever driving lesson for today too! We only just got her provisional license as it got stuck at the DVLA for weeks.

She only has one lesson today, but went to school first thing, and is staying all day just to get back into the routine, and to see how the new rules work, her driving lesson is mid afternoon.

[bendmeoverbackwards]

How do your dc all feel about the start of Year 13? Dd went back today and is already feeling stressed. Her older sister had some mental health problems in Year 13 and this is playing on dd's mind

[bendmeoverbackwards]

On MN and even more soon The Stude t Room I have seen parents who are absolutely single minded and I feel sorry for their dcs

In this house, it's not me who is single-minded, it's dd. She went from not caring too much to setting her heart on Oxford and would even consider taking a year off and replaying if she doesn't get in. I am trying to encourage her to look seriously at her other options!

[ErrolTheDragon]

I always think the Maths STEP for Cambridge must be the most daunting - isn’t it taken after you get your A-levels? So you could exceed your offer and get all A, but then miss it in the STEP in August. Why put them through that?

I assume they do it because A levels are pitched such that someone who is sufficiently good at maths to do physical sciences or engineering can get an A* in FM (Cambridge engineering requires it) but that doesn't prove you've got what's required to be a Cambridge mathmo. though why they can't now do that filtering with their own entrance test in October before applications I don't know.

[calculatorqueen]

My son's going to give it a go for PPE. I had an offer for PPE 30 years ago but failed on the grades and my sister read maths at Balliol, so we've got a fair idea of what it entails but are a 'bit' out of date. We're trying to keep it low key and he knows that the chances of getting in are low. The problem now is trying to pick the other 4!

[hobbema]

Very limited "cohort" of 1 DC here. DD's school very clear on the likelihood of rejection rather than success from the outset, almost too much imo .I don't think she was one of the 7 or 8 applicants in her subject who would have been expected to get an an offer ( 2 did of which she was one). She worked very hard on her application and found much of the process fun and stimulating rather than brutal. Things we learned , none of which havent been said elsewhere but anyway; its a long haul, its very difficult not to get progressively more invested no matter how hard you try , its very important to have a great 2nd choice, she has residual regret that she wont be going to her insurance place, I wish fewer people had known , it ramps up the pressure but its very hard to keep it under the radar.

[Jano69]

I agree re Maths Step quest1on. Someone on the Oxbridge 2020 thread got 4 A stars this summer but missed out on the place due to Step. That was harsh, particularly as everyone on this year's 2020 thread met their offers due to the exam fiasco. Certainly trumps my DS's sorry story,

[quest1on]

For something like Theology or Anglo Saxon, success rates are over 40% at Cambridge, though it varies slightly between colleges (despite the pool). Also Classics, I think and some other subjects. I think the average is 20% success rate, but some subjects, like Medicine and CS are considerably lower.

I always think the Maths STEP for Cambridge must be the most daunting - isn’t it taken after you get your A-levels? So you could exceed your offer and get all A*, but then miss it in the STEP in August. Why put them through that?

[quest1on]

Yes, goodbye, you’re right of course. The stats say nothing about the quality of applicants. I think Cambridge are different to Oxford in that, for DS’ subject at least, they interview most of them. Some years they might have 10 applicants at a college and give 5 conditional offers. Other years 20 applicants, but as you say, you don’t know who they are! Sometimes they only take one and get the rest from the pool. It’s very variable, but I had a look at Computer Science and I’m sure odds were more like one in 15 even in a good year with much higher numbers in general and therefore more scope for a strong candidate to be overlooked.

[goodbyestranger]

Although broadly the same number of applicants are interviewed for each subject at Oxford quest1on, if you're judging competition purely on numbers, which I'm not sure you can, completely. It's far more likely that a reasonably talented applicant will have a bash at getting in for History or English or PPE say, than for many of the courses which appear on the face of it to be markedly more daunting. Competition is only a factor as far as quality goes, not quantity.

[quest1on]

At DS’ school, a fair few go to Oxbridge every year. (maybe 20-30) out of a year group of just over 200, I think. About the same number go to US unis and to be honest, I think the Oxbridge candidates feel as if they’ve got off fairly lightly in comparison because at least Oxbridge don’t require you be captain of such-and-such sports team, or founder of x society and endless hours of charity work! Not to mention the SATs!

I would say one if the (unintended) benefits of being in a school like his is that you learn to be ok with failure or not being “outstanding” pretty quick. When you’re surrounded by mainly A* types, you just feel very average, even struggling, so it’s a permanent reality check really.

Also, I think people talk about “getting into Oxbridge” but let’s face it, applying for the super-competitive courses is a different ball game to one of the smaller humanities courses where there might be 3 or 4 applicants per place.

The other quite good thing about his school is that they really don’t make a song and dance about “this year’s Oxbridge successes.” They know full well that it’s more about the subject, rather than the institution quite often. It’s very common to get turned down with 4 A* for Computer Science at Cambridge, for instance, but maybe less so for something like MFL or Classics (not to suggest anything other than those students are anything other than super-talented, of course, but it’s just a different numbers game). So they are just as likely to feature someone who has got in to study something very specialist like Aeronautical Engineering at Southampton, or a competitive design course at Kingston or drama at RADA, than they are the Oxbridge students.

At the Oxbridge launch talk just before lockdown, they were very blunt. They said, Oxbridge courses are not more competitive than other unis necessarily, but it’s the process that’s different and needs more stamina. They said if you’re not predicted at least two A*, don’t bother. If you’re not prepared to go essay competitions and extra-reading, don’t waste our time. Then they brought back in ex-pupils who didn’t get in first time round to talk To a packed hall of parents and their Year 12s about how “brutal” it can be. One girl said she was the only one who didn’t get a conditional offer in her friend group and she was devastated, But she went on to exceed the grade requirements at A-level. She decided to take a gap year. She then landed a job shadowing a cabinet member (), reapplied and got I the next year. Then there was someone else who got the offer, but not the grades in the summer. Someone else who went but ended up with mental health problems and has to leave. The whole thing was quite draining to sit through tbh and I’m sure it put loads off (which was probably the intention).

I’m looking forward for the form to just be in, to be honest.

[Jano69]

Kind of you too say @goodbyestranger....

I think it would've been easier to move on if the rejection had been in January but to get the grades for a standard humanities Cambridge offer (he was on track for straight A Stars but panicked in the exams due to the pressure of the A Star A Star A offer) only to be rejected from the summer pool a couple of days after results day was awful. Very few people go through this scenario (we don't know of anyone else), so the experience was very isolating.

[goodbyestranger]

There's a lot to be said for just having a go without being too invested. It's completely legitimate to turn down any uni offer, Oxford and Cambridge aren't special in that regard.

[goodbyestranger]

But to Jano69, I can quite see that her DS's experience was exhausting, because of the missed grade and the horrible days that followed. That would colour any experience I think.

[goodbyestranger]

CoolKittens the process really isn't brutal. That's a nonsense. My DC have certainly been relatively nervous in the immediate run up to interviews but I'd say that on the whole they all found it mildly enjoyable. Parents don't help at all if they take the line that it's brutal.

[IrmaFayLear]

I think it’s important to keep looking at the odds, and (gently) telling your dc that they are possibly a big fish in a small pond about to go into competition with thousands of other fish. You just have to give it your best shot and be enthusiastic about other places too.

I think the big problem that I have seen frequently over the years is a manic over-investment in the whole thing, and in some cases a self-belief which cannot countenance that others may be “better”. On MN and even more soon The Stude t Room I have seen parents who are absolutely single minded and I feel sorry for their dcs.

Another big no no imo is telling the whole world and their dog that your dc is applying/has got an interview. People have wailed that grandma etc will be so disappointed... Nooooo !!!!! The poor applicant will likely feel they’ve let everyone down or will feel a failure/embarrassed. It’s too much pressure and expectation to put on young shoulders.

[CoolKittens]

Can I chip in as a 'first timer'? In what way is the process brutal? DD understands that it is a long shot, even though she ticks all the boxes. In her mind (and mine) its preparing for a test and hopefully an interview and then crossing fingers. Is this naive?

[Baaaahhhhh]

Jano69 It comes up quite often, and I always mean to ask. If your DD isn't sure, then why go through the process? If she gets an offer will she then decline? As you say it's such a brutal process, so why go ahead if you're not that invested?

[Jano69]

I posted at the beginning of this thread so thought I should say I'm still here lurking in the background as we approach a new thread. What happened to our OP @funkysatsuma? DD is not optimistic about her chances at Oxford and not sure if it's a good fit for her but she'll give it a go. I think she'll be secretly relieved if she doesn't get an offer. We went through this whole process a couple of years ago with DS (Cambridge was his dream) and it's such an exhausting brutal process, we're not sure we can stomach it again.

[sammyjoanne]

@CoolKittens

Wow thank you so much *@sammyjoanne* !! That is so helpful. Lancaster really wasn't on DDs radar as she was only looking down the Russell Group list. I think it looks fantastic and would suit her very well. She is not after a 'big city' vibe at all. We will definitely visit very soon. Thank you again!

We looked at Leeds and York also which are Russell Group, but Lancaster just stood out when it comes to the department. Its in the top 10 on the complete university guide, beating most Russell Groups. Best thing is to work out what the job prospects are like for that course at that specific uni.
The website 'What Uni' is also good. You can start the search by typing in the course (then change from clearing to 2021 start), and then filter by ranking, student satisfaction, entry requirement and highest employment rates.

[FlyingSquid]

I tend to agree - and I think DD’s final A may be a case in point, though her college staff are adamant that their grading was solidly evidenced and even on the harsh side.

She’s capable of each of those grades separately. Who knows whether she would have had a good day for all three?

But it gets her into the realms of the potential applicant, where two A* and a B wouldn’t.

[ClarasZoo]

I suspect oxbridge will treat grades awarded this year with some caution when making offers and may rely a bit more on the admissions tests and interviews. Some of this years grades will have been a bit lucky, and although my DS is applying next year this is not sour grapes on my part, as he has an A level this year. I would expect that A level to count for a bit less than if he had actually sat it...

[GreyBow]

@sammyjoanne thank you!

Lancaster has been a recent thought for DD and one DH and I hadn't even thought of it for her but it's a really brilliant option. Thank you for such a helpful post.

[mikeandike]

@sammyjoanne Thank you for that! DD and I found it really helpful

[FlyingSquid]

@IrmaFayLear

Nothing personal, FlyingSquid! In the spirit of full disclosure, ds was a post A-Level applicant. I'm just railing against the increased numbers this year which is a blow for everyone: pre and post A Level.

And in the same spirit, I see your point! DD was awarded two A* and an A.

She was pretty sure of A/A* in the subject she wants to take and one other, but her third subject was shaky this time last year - hence the post-results application.