Oxbridge Aspirants: Sep 2021

[funkysatsuma]

Not sure if it's too early to start this thread in Nov 2019 :)

DS would like Cambridge Economics as the first choice. Would like to know where can we get some help to prepare for the ECAA test - appreciate any pointers/links. Thanks in advance

Thanks sandy. I’m surprised Oxford offer AAA for PPE because isn’t that one if their most popular courses?

Also, so many oxbridge applicants seem to also apply to Durham and may use this as their insurance offer, but how can it be an insurance when this uni asks for exactly the same grades? Same for suite a few others eg Exeter. From DS point of view, there’s no point in applying to any of these as well as Cambridge for the humanities course he wants to do, as they’re all A*AA anyway and we e got LSE and UCL down the road that ask for AAA and KCL which asks for AAB.

I think location does have a lot to do with where you apply because why would someone from London, for instance go all the way to St Andrews or Durham when there’s so many other unis in London or within a couple of hours striking distance?

My son has been going back and forth with the history courses in Oxford and Cambridge. Although the Cambridge course is changing it is more the structure that will change rather than the content?

As a university he prefers Cambridge but I have heard Oxford is "better" for humanities ?

I myself have just had a look at the History course in both universities and maybe I haven't collected the right information, but can't see a vast difference. Is anyone able to help with this? The difference between the History Course between Oxford and Cambridge?

From DS point of view, there’s no point in applying to any of these as well as Cambridge

It's fine to apply to 2-3 places who are likely to give an AAA offer, especially if you're not 100% confident of getting an offer from all of them.

It's wise to include one or two places with lower grade requirements though.

DS's offers were
A A A A
A* A A
A* A A
A* A A
A A B C

He has chosen one of the A* A A offers as insurance. This might seem like a high-rise strategy, but (1) they were accepting people on to that course last year with only A A A and (2) if he gets lower than that, the place who gave him the A A B C offer will almost certainly have spaces in clearing.

77seven DD had approximately 10% chance of getting her offer of AAA for PPE. This was after having to achieve a high score in the TSA and going to Oxford for 4 days for interviews in December. If Oxford decide that they want you, they tend to make an achievable offer. The reverse is true of Cambridge, as they make higher offers knowing that a significant number won't get the grades and won't take up their places in October.

DD is trying to decide whether or not to risk putting Durham as her insurance offer (also AAA) or make life easier by insuring York. The standard offer for PPE at other top universities, including Durham, Warwick, LSE, York etc is A*AA, but they apply to them all because no university is guaranteed to make you an offer, however great a catch you think you are. The course structure & content also varies from university to university. A lot of London based applicants have no intention of staying in London, especially if they would have to live at home. A lot of the rest of UK have no intention of applying to London because of the cost or because they don't want the lifestyle. DD deliberately chose universities at the opposite end of the country to where we are based as she didn't want Exeter, Bristol or London.

The standard approach is to apply to 2 aspirational, 2 achievable & 1 dead cert.

@Hoghgyni advice is good. DS1 made sure he applied for a dead cert by applying for one BSc and the other four MChem. Even so that only gave him AAA.

Thanks - do you think Oxford might ever offer AAA for Geography? I mean, I understand the interview process is more rigorous, but then at least the pressure is off slightly between January and August if you get through. The courses at Oxford and Cambridge are very similar, especially as there are so many modules to choose from.

Another odd thing, even the different colleges at Cambridge vary in their application requirements, ie Kings College ask for one essay; another college asks for two essays and I think some ask for none at all. It does make me wonder how the process can be standardised when different colleges require different things.

Who don’t they just interview them all in the relevant department against the same criteria; then ask the selected ones for their choice of maybe two or three colleges and try to allocate as fairly as possible. It would be so much more transparent then.

Also, do you think they discriminate if the applicant wants to take a gap year? They claim they don’t, but I have to wonder.

Well it has taken me a few seconds to Google the standard offer for geography at Oxford as being A*AA, so no, they won't reduce it to AAA. I'm sure you can look up their deferred place policy in the same way. There is typically between 8 - 20% chance of being lucky enough to get an offer from Oxford. The odds are slightly better at Cambridge for the reasons given above. Every single applicant is a high flier with similar predicted grades and results already achieved. They have no reason to change their admissions or offer procedures when so many people are chasing so few places. The odds get worse each year, as more and more candidates of a similar callibre have the courage to apply.

And no, the pressure isn't off between January and August. Do you realise how hard it is to get a minimum grade A in each subject, with everyone's expectations and the fear of failure haunting you? The majority of students holding offers will get top grades, but that doesn't matter, because you have lost your place if you get a grade B for anything.

You are building yourselves and your DCs up for an enormous fall if you enter this process thinking that you will get a place. You need to treat the whole process as an exercise in its own right, with each stage being achieved as a small victory. There are so many cases where deserving DC don't even get offered an interview who will go on to get 3 or 4 straight A stars. You can't take anything for granted.

chopc I don't know about the history content myself. My DBIL has studied and researched history at Cambridge, Oxford, Durham and at various other places. I know he selected each course based on content & these days on his current research opportunities. I doubt if the reputation of either oxford or Cambridge is problematic.

77seven the reason many Oxbridge candidates also apply to Durham, St Andrews, Imperial etc is because even being a stellar applicant, the chances of an Oxbridge offer are small! For my ds's subject (Maths) it was a 10% chance and so high flyers must also think of where else they would be happy. FWIW ds got 2 offers which were the same as his Oxford offer - he would have been happy at both but the chances of an offer at one were slightly smaller than the other because they also use scores from the Oxford admissions test to decide if they will offer.
His other two were AstarAA and AstarAB and he chose the latter for his insurance.

The variation in offers and requirements across Cambridge colleges is because decisions are more college based whereas at Oxford, the subject Faculty have more of a say - so at Oxford, if the faculty want you, they will find you a place, perhaps by making an 'open' offer or allocating you to another college prior to interview.

Hoghgny - Sorry, I think I you have misunderstood me. I didn’t say that the “pressure is off” if you have to achieve AAA. Not at all! Only that it’s marginally less pressure than A*AA. That’s all. At this stage, I’m just trying to weigh everything up, precisely because this is totally new to us and I don’t want DS to go through a stressful process if he doesn’t really have a chance. We are most certainly not presuming anything whatsoever. Just information gathering at this stage and trying to understand and make sense if it all. He may not even apply.

Of course I realise it says A*AA on the Oxford website for Geography, but was wondering if they sometimes lower it because they filter out more at the interview stage. That’s all. I thought people on here would have experience perhaps, having just gone through it.

For instance, I’ve now read on the website for Christ’s College (Cambridge) that as of 2020, they no longer require their geography candidates to sit the pre-admission test at all. No mention of this on other college websites though.

Christ’s, Trinity, Trinity Hall and Kings all require essays. No others do.

It’s these kind of variables I’m trying to make sense of. I certainly don’t mean to offend anyone and I apologise if some of my questions sound basic.

Oxford only make standard offers to all students with no flexibility in them. They have so many to choose from from the UK, EU and other overseas countries that they have no need to drop their standard offers. I have no idea about Cambridge, as HuaShan says, their colleges can do what they like.

What I've tried to say is that there is absolutely no point in trying to game the system to get an offer, because you can't. If your DS thinks he is in with a shot at geography at Cambridge, let him try, but make sure you don't let him set his heart on a particular college and definitely don't give the impression that there is anything wrong with any of his 4 other choices, as he could easily end up going to one of them. Your DS needs to find somewhere where he will be happy for 3 or 4 years and he may even decide during the application process that Warwick, Birmingham, Lancaster or UCL actually offers what he wants. DD was lucky enough to get a place on Oxford UNIQ last year. Several of her cohort didn't apply for PPE and/or Oxford in the end. One has an offer from Cambridge for HSPS, others are delighted with offers from Warwick or York, others are still waiting on Durham. The whole UCAS thing is a bit of a lottery.

Hi @HopeGrace and @Olliepolly. I'm on this thread for DD but do have a DS studying Physics at Oxford now.

I think that the PAT is key. If you don't do well in that you won't get an interview. The test is just after October half term and there are examples and practice papers online. From what DS said the interview was less about why Physics/Oxford and what you've done, and more about how your mind works. They gave prompts where necessary to move you on. In retrospect he quite enjoyed it but not at the time 😂. The course has lots of problem sheets that you attempt and then discuss in tutorials so they're looking for how well that method of teaching would suit you.

We went to the open day and looked round about 10 colleges. They all had pros and cons so in the end DS submitted an open application. He wanted to study Physics at Oxford and the college was less important.

Hogh - why would you think I’m trying to game the system through? This is a thread for people potentially at the start of the Oxbridge process so they are bound to have questions. I’m sure you felt similarly daunted at the outset?

I’m certainly not encouraging DS to focus on any indication uni, To be honest, at this point his favourite courses are at LSE (because it’s all human geog and he can add on a language) and also UCL because he can have a placement year abroad. But, This thread is about Oxbridge and there are no threads about these other unis (yet)!

I’m just trying to understand how Cambridge admissions can be as standardised and fair as they claim. For instance, if you apply to Christ’s and find out you don’t have to do the pre-admission test, how can you be “pooled” if all the other colleges do require you to have done this test?

particular, not “indication”

I didn't want DD to apply TBH as I assumed she would be disappointed. She is nowhere near as clever as other members of our family! Oxford is completely inflexible in its offers & I have no experience of the Cambridge application process apart from talks at master classes & parent evenings. I have simply tried to say that it's not worth over thinking the admissions stats, college applications & so on, as the entire system seems to have no rhyme nor reason to who gets offers and where they are for. Just apply to wherever he thinks he will be happy.

Sure, we’ve only looked at different colleges in the sense that a few are a half-hour walk out of town; a couple are girls only or all postgrad etc. Some are much bigger than others. Also, seeing as you might as well choose a college because most applicants do, if possible he would like to be in one that offers a mixed choir and have a try at that, rather than the all male / boy choirs which must be super-competitive and time-consuming and wouldn’t appeal to him so much anyway. We can’t go to open days at all the colleges as they’re all on different days, so just trying to shortlist a few to begin with. Haven’t even looked at Oxford yet, but the process there does sound a bit more standardised, from what I can gather on here, which can only be a good thing.

We didn't go to an open day at Cambridge, but popped into some of the colleges when we went up for a masterclass. My DBiL told us to ignore the paid admissions and ask at each entrance if we could have a look around as a potential applicant. The staff were always do helpful and gave DD all sorts of goodies including the alternative prospectus. In some respects those visits were less fraught than going on an open day, as you could potter around at your own pace.

X post with Hugo!