Oxbridge Aspirants: Sep 2021

[funkysatsuma]

Not sure if it's too early to start this thread in Nov 2019 :)

DS would like Cambridge Economics as the first choice. Would like to know where can we get some help to prepare for the ECAA test - appreciate any pointers/links. Thanks in advance

@HopeGrace - don't rule any colleges out. Take him to have a look at both places with an open mind. Things are changing and both universities are doing huge amounts to open up access.

I think it is really important not to get too hung up on which college. Take the choice lightly as someone said ,a little research ,maybe look at the alternative prospectus, pick one of the colleges where they take several physics students which is usually only 7 to 9 students at most. Reallocation is common and have to also be realistic about the odds of success. They need to want it but not at the exclusion of all other choices so having a back up choice of uni that they could see themselves going to is vital. Prepare for the PAT ,go to the oxford open day in July. Thi s is our plan which is easy to write at the moment but the autumn term of year 13 can be pretty full on with all of the studying, admissions prep and then the PAT ,wait to see if selected for interview etc

I was chatting to DS1 this morning about what he thinks made the difference for his application.

I just asked DS the same question; he says Isaac Physics because (a) he mentioned the awards and summer school in his personal statement (b) it was practice for the admissions assessment and (c) it was good preparation for interviews.
But he mainly does it because he enjoys it.

@sandybaley and Ollie thanks for the advice. He is looking at other universities too, so not over investing however he loves Physics and he is passionate about wanting to study at Oxford. Will probably need to look a bit more at the colleges as suggested. Thank you

Hi, on the advice of a pp, I had a look at the admissions statistics for the various colleges. There seems to be no pattern to application levels versus offers made really, but you can see that some colleges only take about 2 per year on average for the subject DS is interested in. The college that seems to take the most (as in about 8-10) is called Homerton. It looks beautiful and apparently all the rooms are en-suite and the facilities are great because it was refurbished recently. But it does look a little way out if town.
Has anyone visited this college or would anyone know if they miss out not being more in the hub of things?
Do the colleges further out tend to be the ones that receive the most pooled applicants or open applications?

Bit unsure whether to dip my toe into this thread

DS is interested to apply for engineering at Oxford or Cambridge as he seems to be doing well at A levels and his teachers are getting excited for him at how he’s doing

But he went to normal comp and is now at the local 6th form college, is only doing 3 a levels (plus engineering and coding challenges but no UCAS points for those) and is dyslexic (and therefore “only” got A/Bs for language/humanities subjects at gcse)

He has an absolute love and knowledge for anything to do with maths/engineering/physics, but I guess Oxbridge may just be a pipe dream then, due to SEN and not knowing how to “play the game”

I guess I will let him and the college decide.

I understand you can apply for 5 Unis in total so it’s not the end if he would not get in

It seems very intimidating or even “closed shop” to an immigrant like me, not familiar with the system

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead I do understand that, and felt like that until I went to a College open day the year before my DS applied.
I realised that my view of it being a closed shop was in a sense my own prejudice and judgment coming in. What I saw was very bright and passionate young people from a range of backgrounds.
Oxbridge are doing a lot to level the playing field and please don't let your ds be put off from applying.
I believe Cambridge look at GCSES less than Oxford does.

Thanks purplepooch, yes we should just go to open days this year

DD is also dyslexic and has Bs at GCSE in languages. She is at Cambridge doing physical Natsci, so basically physics and chemistry. She is doing materials science in third year, so not a million miles away from engineering. As long as he’s likely to get the grades at A level I wouldn’t let anything else put your DS off at this stage. She has found her college genuinely diverse in terms of student backgrounds and it seems to be increasingly accessible. Have a look round and see if it’s a place that interests him.

But why would Oxbridge feel so overwhelming more of a closed shop than Durham, UCL or whatever? I know the separate entrance process is a factor but people seem to be commenting this in a more general way. I have just started looking at universities to help my son a bit (not that he will be interested in my input) and I have no idea how Durham’s colleges work or how London universities would feel given the housing challenges, but I guess all will become clear. And yes I went to university but it was 30 years ago so I can’t remember much about the process and in case so much has changed that even if I could remember it would be pretty irrelevant. All these stages seem a bit baffling when one meets them (remember choosing secondary schools?).

Totally agree Michaela. Oxbridge aren’t even interested in your extra-curricular, let alone what school or region you’re coming from. It’s all about the grades and if anything, they would look more favourably at someone achieving AAA from a comprehensive, than from a selective indie. They may well even give a contextual offer.

Also, I think there are so many assumptions made about students from independent schools. Yes, those in selective independents do have certain advantages obviously and I would never deny that., But if DC are in highly selective grammars, or independents where the competition for a place at 11 plus is probably higher than it is for Oxbridge respectively, it only stands to reason that these schools will produce a lot of applicants to top unis down the line. These schools don’t pretend to cater for anything less than the top 2% or whatever it may be, so you have to expect much higher admissions from such schools, than schools across the country catering for the full range of ability.

It obviously is an advantage if you’ve had parents who went to Oxbridge, in the sense that they’re familiar with the process and it’s less daunting, etc. But independent schools vary as widely as state schools. Some are worth every penny, some are utterly shocking. And you can’t generalise about the families who use independents - not necessarily. For instance, my DC are in independents these days, but I was the first in my family to ever go to uni and DH came here as a baby with refugee parents.

There will be all types at any university, but I guess you never know what could be unless you give it a try. There was a time I would have had certain preconceptions about “Eton types”, now I just don’t care. Get the grades and they’re all in the same boat.

77seven it seems to be the case that Oxford cares quite a bit about what school an applicant comes from, also which region.

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead my DS is dyslexic and has an offer from Cambridge to study engineering. He has English language (grade A, honestly a miracle -- he worked out how to game it) and Religious Studies (grade B) and all his other GCSEs are maths/science based. Definitely go to both Oxford and Cambridge open days and see how your DS feels. Mine was going to apply to Oxford and only went to the Cambridge open day last minute but strongly preferred the department there. I think for Oxford, Engineering applicants have to do a Physics Aptitude test in late October and for Cambridge it's an Engineering Aptitude test. Candidates take these exams at their normal school usually.

Cambridge seems extremely well geared up for dyslexic students. Their SN advisory people have already contacted DS. Fingers crossed and touch wood he will now get the horrifically steep grades he needs!

77Seven please don't perpetuate the myths. Oxford does not make contextual offers. A student from a comprehensive in a deprived area of the country must achieve exactly the same A level grades as an applicant from one of the top selective independents in their A levels.

@Hoghgyni is right - no contextual offers from Oxbridge. But a candidate from a disadvantaged community or underperforming school may be more likely to get an offer.

Apologies, I had presumed Oxbridge would make contextual offers as other unis do. Why would they be any different?

At Oxford the harder thing is to get the offer, not to achieve it - their offers are generally low (with a couple of exceptions). So contextual stuff is injected at an earlier stage.

Hence my earlier comment.

goodbye - can I ask what you mean by contextual stuff being injected at an earlier stage?

In the decision whether to interview and then to offer. I think maybe you should check out the Oxford website on how decisions are made, or read this:

www.worc.ox.ac.uk/applying/access-and-outreach/making-access-fair-some-thoughts-year%E2%80%99s-admissions-cycle

Thanks for the article. So even though this college don’t offer contextual grades as such, the process of gaining a conditional offer Is contextual.

Do Cambridge not do the same though? I know they make more contextual offers but, in the case of Humanities, it’s A*AA, rather than AAA. But still, when I looked through the Cambridge admissions statistics for the course he’s interested in, the numbers of offers made to males from the independent sector looked very low. That said, this course is about 2/3rds female by the look if it anyway. I don’t think there were stats on ethnicity or whether you live in London / SE, I’ll have to check again. He does live in London, but wouldn’t class himself as white.

Also, at his school which is independent, 25% are on bursaries there. This means, as well as the fees, all trips / other opportunities are free once in the school. For the sixth form, there were 30 extra places and hundreds of applicants. 15 of these 30 places were bursary places and they weren’t required to have ten grade 9s and a whole raft if other outstanding achievements, (like for instance, someone shifting over from St Paul’s for the co-ed), because their grades were looked at in the context of their school. I hope unis would take this into account and look under the surface a bit if a child who was applying in such circumstances. Postcodes in London vary so much. You could be in a sought after part of Kensington and Chelsea, but living at the top of a tower block, as some of DS’ friends are.

Dw 77seven, they look at postcodes too, besides school attended. Also, for sixth form joiners to top indies, the GCSEs will be looked at in the context of the Y7 - Y11 school. They seem pretty clued up on all this.

If you trouble to read the (admittedly long) post admissions piece from the website, you will see it all explained very clearly.

goodbye, could I also ask you - on both Cambridge and Oxford websites, it states that the required grades for a geography degree is AAA. Yet my impression on here, is that quite a few have had humanities offers from Oxford that “only” ask for AAA, wheteas Cambridge do actually ask for AAA for all conditional offers? Have I got the right impression?

Would I be right in thinking that Oxford are able to offer slightly lower conditional grades because they’ve done more “weeding out” at interview stage?

Or have I got this wrong and both ask for A*AA?

@77seven - it varies by subject. At Oxford some of the humanities will make AAA offers ( history and PPE for example). I'd assume that to make a successful application a candidate needs to have at least the predicted grades to get an interview and they should expect to be asked to achieve them.

DS1's offer is 2 X A star plus A. Exactly as stated on the Oxford Chemistry website.