Medicine 2021

[Millylovespuddles]

Hi all
It looks like there’s no medicine 2021 entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get the ball rolling.
My DD is getting stuck into her A level course, doing well so far, but I’m guessing we parents could do with some mutual support and advice from parents who’ve been here before.

@needmoresleep
Yes, the UCAT has become key for an increasing number of med schools. You cannot blame them, it has evidence to show it predicts performance at med school and it is quick and easy to short-list applicants.
Do I think it is a good thing? No. I completely agree that many skills needed by a Dr do not relate to performance in an aptitude test. I am fully in favour of different med schools having different selection processes.
UCAT is an aptitude test, it is like any other skill, people have an innate level at which they can function and this can be improved by practice - but not beyond their natural limits. I am rubbish at art; practice improves my offerings, but they are still pretty crap. Most people can learn the piano, given practice, few will be concert pianists, we all enjoy kicking a ball around, not many of us play for Premiership football teams.
So yes, people should practice the UCAT, but expensive courses are not needed. There are plenty of free resources out there, but I would say Medify is reasonably priced and probably the best resource for things all in one place. I am not pushing TSR, but there is loads of advice on there about how to approach sections, how to improve timing, etc, etc (especially on the Grads Threads, usually).
I am fortunate that my children who have applied thus far have an aptitude for the UCAT, as certainly one of them showed little aptitude for much else! Thus they had lots of choices in where they could apply.
My advice is that A levels are key - no AAA and you ain't going nowhere (although WP and resits change that), next is UCAT (ace this and the medical world is your oyster), GCSEs can be really helpful but are not an absolute (and often too late by the time that realisation comes) and WEx, ExCs and hence PS are the last on the list (though should not be ignored - how does someone know they want to be a Dr if they have no experience of the job?).
So that is what I would prioritise - UCAT end of Yr 12, big push for A levels without letting other things distract Yr 13 and some background volunteering and WEx that should go on throughout 6th form (and probably needs organising end Yr 10 or early Yr 11).
Again, please ask if I make no sense (it has been said) or you would like further thoughts on anything

@goodbyestranger
People seem to be coping with posting if they want to!

Brilliant advice (but then I'm just a mum of a 2nd year. Oh, and a teacher helping current pupils apply (successfully). Follow those rules and you won't go far wrong. Choose Unis that offer your style of teaching and other things you might find important (such as full body dissection, early patient contact). That, and a hefty pinch of luck, will get you those interviews, and it's here that work experience helps as having things to talk about are vital.

@Gaynfyd You are very clear, but I think I am not being, although seeing your response made me clarify my thinking. I think there are two aspects:
a) practical skills; and
b) emotional understanding.

Let me talk about a) as I think that is easier to articulate.

One of the things that DS found frustrating about his work experience in a busy A&E, was that they were flat out, but for legal reasons (especially being under 18), he was not allowed to help much, just watch. The most satisfying aspect was when he was allowed to start the process of taking a medical history, ie actually do something useful rather than feeling like a spare part. It did make him feel that he wanted to focus on those medical schools that got him into the hospital as fast as possible, and he did learn, but he is keen to do.
But you see, because of all this regulation, DS is unusual in that he actually has hands on experience. He hasn't just shadowed, he has done.
Now that DS1 has moved out, we discovered that in order for his carers to be allowed to give him Buccal Medazolam, they needed to go on an entire day training course. My DH in particular found this hilarious. We as his parents got, maybe five minutes explanation, before we were sent home with the drug. As my DH says, because I slept with you and we produced a child, I am deemed to be medically qualified! And it is a bit like that. While I would never allow DS(2) to give Buccal Medazolam, I certainly would and did say "please can you draw up the Ranitadine" while I hoist him" (or vice versa). Ie DS doesn't just have experience shadowing, he has actual skills that they will not generally let 16/17 year olds get. And he has been doing it for years. Should he be "reflecting" on what he saw a doctor doing in A&E or the experience of knowing that if you hoist your brother wrong, you can hurt him, and that your mother only lets you do it because she knows you know how? That you know, when drawing up medicine, that while your mother may check, if you give too much or too little, or don't allow for the bubble at the bottom of the syringe, it could be dangerous? That hoisting of adults works much better with an established team of two who each know the way the other will move. Or should he ignore this knowledge as it is weird and if not acquired in the home setting, illegal, and talk about teamwork in hospitals as you have described? He did write a lot of that (on the instructions of his supervisor in A&E) on what he saw while he couldn't do anything but watch.

b) this one is harder to explain, but he could prossibly go on about the limitations of doctors who only see a patient, often every few months, and the emotional impact of some of their advice. And the need to encourage the patient or if the patient is not able, the family, to actively participate in the decision making, eg when trying experimental epilepsy drugs. Or why trying too many drugs may create burdens in other ways, that doctors are often oblivious to. It might not be what those scoring the PS want to hear, however, and they may in fact not be able to understand, and so he might shoot himself in the foot. It is not just about being empathic, it is about the intersection of medicine and pragmatics in the real world that he has seen in a way that most teenagers haven't. But it is not a level of reflection he could possibly pick up from mere observation in any of the standard settings in which he is expected to get "work experience", and so maybe he would be better shutting up about such experiences and telling them about what he has learnt in a week in the hospital, and from wider reading, which are more likely to fit the box ticking exercise you describe.

Is this clearer?

Sorry mistyped your name @GANFYD - see above

@mimtza
That is tough, as ideally he should talk about all of that, but the interview is the place for that and the word count on PS means things have to be cut seriously short for many people.
For a) he can talk about how his experiences lead to his motivation to study medicine, how frustrating it was to want to help and not be able to (and how he managed these frustrations later in a paragraph about self care!), how much he has gained from the practical skills he has learned via his experiences, the teamwork is gold dust, and mentioning where he saw this happen (or not, with possible reasons, ie so busy) in A&E would be a good compare/contrast. I would not go into the detail regarding drugs, but if he can fit it in, something about being aware of the importance of good communication, instructions and attention to detail. He needs a bit of reflection on what he saw Drs do in A&E, as his other experience does not directly involve Drs, but link it to how it confirmed his wish to take that extra step studying medicine, and how he saw the same (or different) skills and characteristics to those involved with care for his brother.

b) is all just great the way it is. Shared decision-making is a massive thing at present, discussing it as part of communication skills, empathy, compassion, team-working, being aware of the negative, although unintended, consequences of a Drs actions. Talking of the stresses it can have on the family and how he deals with those, how it affects his view of "quality of life".

I don't think any Dr/AT does not want to hear that an applicant is aware of the negative things about medicine. They will understand if he can thread compassion and empathy through his PS. He needs to be wary of making it them and us. Factual statements about what was good and what hasn't and how he wants to develop the good and avoid the bad, if he becomes a Dr, etc etc.
Honestly, the issue is going to be how to cut this down enough to fit into the word count, not that he is going to say the wrong thing! It is reflection and what something taught them that is important, or how it demonstrates valued characteristics (eg responsibility, resilience, team working, communication, etc etc) rather than a list of the days or weeks spent doing something. Almost everybody has WEx and volunteering, so an applicant needs to show what they got from it, otherwise it can appear like something that was just done as somebody told them you needed it for med school.

Look at the documents I have listed above and think about how his experiences demonstrate these values, so they are "ticked off" as achieved.
And with all that, make it flow nicely, grammar and spelling and Bob's your Uncle!! Easy! Not!

Is that any better?

Or, as another example, the need to balance risk with quality of life. One of the long fights I have fought has been about things like "If you prescribe oxygen, then he will not be able to go out without oxgyen, which will mean that most school trips will be ruled out, so I don't want you to prescribe oxygen, even though there is a risk involved". Or 'Sitting in A&E is soul destroying, and when you are a life limited child, having a large portion of your life taken up with sitting in A&E can seriously impact on your quality of life, not to mention the bugs found in hospitals, which are likely to affect you more severely than most, so the default position of take him to hospital if you are too scared is not actually in the best interests of the patient - even if you are not choosing a never take to hospital route, even though these are the only two options that the give you in terms of palliative care' . Just some of the more personal moral dilemmas that DS has seen his mother dealing with and could no doubt reflect on.

Agreed not directly about being a Dr though (well the prescribing isa Dr thing, and it is not just the school nurses and paramedics that tend to get panicked into sending to hospital, but GPs too).

@mimtza
All amazing experience and would shine in an MMI station if can articulate that, but is going to have to pare things back a bit due to word limitation on the PS!

I've found all this discussion of the PS really enlightening and have certainly more idea now of how to link different experiences to qualities required. Thank you all
A lot of hoops to jump through by this time next year

@mumsneedwine
You are more than just a mum of a 2nd year and teacher! I have seen how warmly you encourage and support people on the current year's thread and how willing you are to share your experiences. That is priceless!

@GANFYD
Ah thank you so much. Having gone through the process as a parent I know how stressful it can be and how we all want our kids to achieve their dreams. And also how much false information is out there !

All of the contributors to these medical threads are willing to share their experiences as parents or as parents and other than parents GANFYD. Some are pretty downbeat about the profession (alreadytaken), some are more upbeat (myself), some are adamant that it doesn't matter which med school you go to, because all doctors everywhere who are UK trained are of universally equal calibre (mumsneedwine), some are more cynical, having been on the receiving end of clinical negligence, and some are genuinely reflective and differentiate between applicants and the varying approaches of schools (Needmoresleep). You haven't said exactly what your own role in the medical field is and I don't give a hoot whether you declare it or not, but all sorts of views are valid on these threads. That's their purpose.

@goodbyestranger

All views are valid, but the warm, encouraging, supportive and factually accurate ones are so much nicer to read than the strident, pejorative, out of date and argumentative ones.
It's about your style.
I am not expecting you to understand

GANFYD I pinged in a post to say that not everything in a personal statement requires an explanation and certainly not explanations which carry with them the implication that the admissions person reading them are bereft of ordinary intelligence. 'Reflection' is fine up to a point - but beware of too much reflection. You then absolutely came crashing in with a whole lot of very long very rude posts including quite bizarre ones about dull, nerdy, unpopular senior prefects (all senior prefects everywhere apparently) and justified those by saying how very knowledgeable you are and how lauded on a student website you are, despite not being a student. Forgive me for not being overwhelmingly impressed. I'm certainly more matter of fact than mumsneedwine but I don't need or seek approval, let alone on an anonymous site such as MN! Tbh that would be slightly sad.

@goodbyestranger
Is there a point to your post other than to provoke a response? As I cannot see one. If you do not like my posts, ignore them, you will certainly not upset me. If there is some information you wished to share, or question you are asking, you need to make it a bit clearer?

I would also challenge the fact that anything I've ever posted on the education threads is incorrect, since nothing has been. I wouldn't waste my own time or anyone else's. You're welcome to point me to errors, but I think you'd be fairly hard pushed. I suspect that we're equally well informed but simply have different approaches, which is fine. Free world and all that.

Based on queries earlier on in the thread, would anybody be interested in some info about how newly qualified Drs (and beyond) are actually selected? I am happy to share the current methodology, though cannot guarantee it will not change with the introduction of the UKMLA

I'm responding directly to your not very well articulated posts as best I can GANFYD! (I'm finding it quite hard to motivate myself to do so but there we are :))

@goodbyestranger
I suspect that we're equally well informed but simply have different approaches, which is fine. Free world and all that.

I sincerely hope we are not! So stop keep commenting on it all, then, I am not sure it is adding anything! It is nice that you are so certain you are right

It's not privileged information GANFYD. Essentially each student is ranked within their own med school then ranks a number of deaneries in order - the higher they're ranked in their med school the better their chances of getting their preferred choice of deanery - then once they know which of those they're allocated to they choose a list of rotations and then see which of those they're allocated to. That's how the current system works at any rate. London - esp two deaneries north of the Thames - have been the most competitive to get into for a while.

Why would you feel a need to be better informed GANFYD? Extraordinary, but quite funny! A tiny bit desperate though.

I think you won't disagree that that's it, in essence.

What stage are you kids at GANFYD, out of interest? It sounds as though they're older than mine. Are you prepared to share where they were trained? No problem if you're not. I'm happy to say Oxford, mumsneedwine openly says Nottingham, Needmoresleep's DD is enjoying Bristol, but some people prefer not to say - quite respect that, obviously, but it helps put colour on posts.

This is entertaining! As one ‘snowflake’ to another you seem a tiny bit desperate to get the last word.

I will repost

All the info on F1 and beyond appointment is out there, but it can be quite difficult to work your way around if you are not familiar with it. I am happy to give the ACTUAL way places are allocated, if people are interested.