Medicine 2021

[Millylovespuddles]

Hi all
It looks like there’s no medicine 2021 entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get the ball rolling.
My DD is getting stuck into her A level course, doing well so far, but I’m guessing we parents could do with some mutual support and advice from parents who’ve been here before.

@goodbyestranger
I'm responding directly to your not very well articulated posts as best I can GANFYD! (I'm finding it quite hard to motivate myself to do so but there we are smile)
If you are struggling to keep up, feel free to take a break or ask for assistance. We all want to be inclusive and would be glad to put it in simpler terminology for you

@goodbyestranger
Forgive me for not being overwhelmingly impressed.

Thank you, I will take that as a compliment

I'm certainly more matter of fact than mumsneedwine but I don't need or seek approval, let alone on an anonymous site such as MN!

That is good to hear, as nobody would want you to be disappointed

What stage are you kids at GANFYD, out of interest? It sounds as though they're older than mine

Mine are mere babes in arms, compared to your 8. I suspect there you are quite a bit older than I am, having gained so much experience you are sharing so diligently. Inaccurately, but diligently

My youngest is 17 yrs old GANFYD and yours have been or are at medical school you say, so there may not be a vast difference. I'm not too bothered by age in any event. Apparently I look years younger than my true age. Eight DC keeps one young! I assume you prefer not to say where your DC go, unlike all other posters on these threads. Fair enough - although not sure why it would be a problem.

Can I just say that your latest posts display quite extraordinary immaturity, along with that same level of unpleasantness displayed early on in the post about a particular section of young people being dull, nerdy and unpopular. Not qualities I look for in a doctor.

I think Needmoresleep makes very valid points about the UKCAT. While I anticipate a screeching of opposition from the self-styled experts on this thread, there is an alternative, which is to take only the BMAT. It can be worth thinking about. Our school doesn't try to dissuade for appropriate students. One of DSs closest friends at school achieved four offers taking BMAT only, including Oxford, despite the millstone of having been a senior prefect! DS also opted for BMAT only and it hasn't done any harm, either short or long term. It's a clear option. Of course one has to want to go to the schools in question but there are slightly more options now than there were. The whole question of early/ late BMAT is a consideration to factor in to that approach and will affect the choices.

For context, our school sends huge numbers off to med school each year and has done for a very, very long time. It's the largest destination for leavers'. Usually a minimum of ten students go off to med school, often very many more, so it's not credible to believe the advice given at the school is poor. The last time a student failed to get a single offer was for entry 2011 but since then the school is back to year on year very strong success - and very different from the despondent note sometimes found on these threads, where the mantra is that it's so hard and so stressful. It's not - and with the expansion in numbers it's getting far easier!

Haha UCAT not UKCAT. I'll correct it before a shimmering riposte by GANFYD

It's not privileged information GANFYD. Essentially each student is ranked within their own med school then ranks a number of deaneries in order - the higher they're ranked in their med school the better their chances of getting their preferred choice of deanery - then once they know which of those they're allocated to they choose a list of rotations and then see which of those they're allocated to. That's how the current system works at any rate. London - esp two deaneries north of the Thames - have been the most competitive to get into for a while.

I do tend to tap out posts at speed GANFYD but I'm not sure what there is to quarrel about with this as a precis of the current system? Isn't that it, pretty much? Am I wrong about London? Or anything on that post?

I suppose I did omit the elements which go into the computation of ranking within the med school, but tbf, you know, it was a precis :)

Back to the point of this. Saw this and thought it might be useful when applying. Good for interview talking points.

www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/applications/infoshorts-admissions-videos

@goodbyestranger
I suppose I did omit the elements which go into the computation of ranking within the med school

The scoring has 3 parts to it, you omitted 2 of them. To paraphrase Meatloaf (he is a singer who was popular in the 1970s, so you may have moved on from popular music by then), 1 out of 3 ain't bad - well about par for the course, I would have said!

@mumsneedwine
Yes, almost everything on the MSC website is helpful and generally well put together and easy to understand.
Their infosheets are excellent (and a section for the teachers amongst you, too)
www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/applications/resources-for-students-and-teachers

You must have helped so many applicants over the years GANFYD, you deserve a medal.

@goodbyestranger
Can I just say that your latest posts display quite extraordinary immaturity
I guess most people must seem immature as you reach advancing years?

along with that same level of unpleasantness displayed early on in the post about a particular section of young people being dull, nerdy and unpopular.

I am not sure if this is a comprehension issue or a retention issue, it was said a day or two ago, so I have copied my comments again - have another read and let me know if you are still struggling
"Certainly not at my childrens' school, where it is considered considerably uncool to put yourself forward as HB/G, nor at another 2 local schools their friends attend. My DCs would rather have been boiled in oil that put themselves up for this sort of role as it would have destroyed all of their hard-earned peer respect.
If that were mentioned in a PS with no clarifying skills, responsibilities or characteristics, I may therefore be inclined to assume this person was dull, nerdy and not popular with their peers"

@Comefromaway

Thank you, it is so kind of you to say so

When my eldest decided he wanted to do medicine, I knew absolutely nothing at all about the up to date application process, so spent months doing what you are all doing and trawling websites, collating evidence and trying to support their decision-making. Our children are lucky to have parents who can and will do this, but not every child does, hence most of my advice is done direct to those who request it who are struggling with the resources available. There is so much minutiae in the admissions processes that is just not easily available and after 6+ years of this, I seem to have lodged an inordinate amount of it in my head!

GANFYD At dd's school the head girl was voted for by the very small number of students in year 11. The girl who no-one wanted to get onto the wrong side of was voted in and whose mother seemed to hold a lot of sway with the then head (who over-ruled the staff votes)

Dd decided not to even apply as it would take too much time away from her studies and applications for Upper School with the team building days away and endless charity events (she preferred to be involved with a charity dear to her heart and model united nations instead)

I personally know people who have found your advice invaluable.

I have (tried) to do similar in the field of elite ballet/performing arts training. I was helped incredibly by a lot of knowlegable people and tried to pass that on to others via specialist forums. I also had the advantage that dh teaches in this sector and is now on audition panels.

However it is almost 7 years since dd gained admittance to a vocational dance school and the admissions process has changed a bit in that time so as time goes on my experience and dd's becomes less valid.

Less so for Upper School training as she is only in her 2nd year of that and as I said, dh is directly involved in admissions. There is always a lot of mis-information about and the same old myths.

I digress, sorry. I also love your forthright posting style. It's a breath of fresh air.

Yes, it is hard to keep up to date and involves hours in the "off season" checking current year's stats etc. Having children who keep wanting to put themselves (and me!) through this rollercoaster has kept my motivation up, but it is very time-consuming on top of a job and other commitments, so I admire others who are trying to do something similar. I cannot imagine having a performer or artist in the family and would love to have that sort of skill and diversity in the house, but my children are definitively STEM orientated. I have so many friends (and a dh!) who interview or teach in medicine, it does make the updates interesting and usually involves food and drink during a round-country tour! Myth-busting and jargon interpretation are part and parcel of trying to help people untangle the (often inaccurate) info out there about med school admissions

And every school has their idiosyncracies over student leaders, I find. For some it is considered an honour and is a role with real responsibilities. For others, it is something few have an interest in as other things fill their time and at my DCs' school, it is a poisoned chalice with very negative connotations, they often have only 1 applicant in a fairly large school. Hence why describing what the role has taught you or how it has allowed you to develop relevant skills is important

I hope it's not a bitter disappointment for you to learn that my own DS1 was not HB GANFYD!!!! I was talking generally, not specifically.

I genuinely can't be arsed to trawl through the silly comments about age etc. You can't possibly know other posters' ages, it's another very, very weird hang up. I might be younger, I might not be but who actually gives a toss? I think treating your whole set of personal attacks as beneath my contempt is the way to go. According to your own version, you post feverishly on a student website. I'm not sure if you're aware that personal insults are actually not allowed over here? Since they reflect on you and certainly not on me, I won't asked for their removal.

My precis of F1/2 selection was close enough for government work. I left out exact computation which if one wants to be very semantic one could include but it's an accurate broad brush picture. That's what a precis is.

Hence why describing what the role has taught you or how it has allowed you to develop relevant skills is important

I think that's excellent advice in any sphere to be honest. Certainly when looking at CV's of applicants for jobs I would want to see that.

Incidentally I think it well worth the effort to put some people's minds at rest and say very firmly that there is nothing whatsoever in current medical school admissions which is not readily within the competence of the sort of Y12 student who is likely to bag a place. No parental input is required. The websites are excellent. Necessary to read them yes yes but also sufficient. Good students need nothing more than that, and a number of posts on this thread are doing a good job at making parents think they need to research, need (some fairly bogus internet) advice and that they're a vital part of the process. Absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to find out for yourself, to support, but any student worth a med school place can (and arguably should) do the homework for themselves.

When I look at CVs I don't wish to be told the obvious and I don't wish each application to look the same as the next, because of an erroneous idea that various standard boxes need to be ticked. So people differ Comefromaway.

My d was one that was very happy to have been advised by ganfyd on tsr last year - only a bit of reassurance that she was on the right lines but it helped her feel a bit more confident that she was doing the right thing, so thank you x

She now tells me that it’s over half way through the first year so she’s 1/12 of a doctor lol

I haven’t read the last few pages in depth but did clock a point about the ‘best’ students applying to Oxbridge. My d says that her course has some students rejected by oxford/Cambridge, but also many like her who chose not to apply there because the course structures are not what she was looking for. Her BMAT would have got her an interview, if successful at interview her 3xA* would have secured her place. She wasn’t interested in a prestigious name, but in how the course was taught and a ‘feeling’ when she got there. She tagged along to an imperial open day with a friend, it wasn’t previously on her list, but it just felt right for her. She goes to oxford very regularly (boyfriend), and although she gets on really well with the students there, from the ‘feel’ and from chatting to medics there, she’s happy that she made the right decision for her.

HostessTrolley glad you're DD is liking Imperial. DS enjoyed his interview and would have been happy to go to Imperial, had things worked out that way. GANFYD seemed to imply that Imperial was the least competitive uni to get into for Medicine (I haven't scrolled back, but I think I've got that correct).

I'm maybe a bit about the fact that by her own account her DCs' school declined her offer of help with med school admissions. Our school welcomes parent doctors with open arms, to help the Y12/13s, despite it's incredibly strong track record with places and excellent and experienced teachers in the relevant subjects. She also implies that it's her DH who is a medic. Forgive me, but in the light of the general tone of her discourse, I do wonder if the school saying thanks but no thanks (since they must know GANFYD personally) is significant. The problem is that some people get swept away with their internet persona and it makes them very intolerant of alternative views. Not saying that's the case here, but I am surprised at the school saying no. One of my DC told me that there's a mum on TSR who's written a book on Oxbridge entrance! On the basis of a couple of kids getting in! It does seem extreme.

Oh my goodness I shouldn't cook and type. Apologies yet again.

As I tell my tutor group. In a world where you can be anything, be kind. And if you can't be kind, be quiet.

During DDs application I found this place so supportive and a place to talk about how we felt for our kids going through such a stressful process. And the same has happened this year for DD2 on vet med.

I think this thread should be for those parents who are looking for help and support for their kids. And goodbye we do realise that no where else but Oxbridge is good enough for you. And that's fine. It's just that a lot of us don't agree with you. And that's allowed too. Lets keep to being helpful. And yes, I do now sound like a teacher 😂

I'm well able to sound like a teacher too mumsneedwine and recall posters on another thread suggesting that you yourself were being rather a playground bully. I'd strongly counsel any pupils against mimicking the rudeness of GANFYD's recent posts and the unpleasantness of calling certain young people dull, nerdy and unpopular simply by virtue of having been elected HB/G. This has got everything to do with an open approach and general courtesy and absolutely nothing to do with Oxbridge, although it's clear that Oxbridge is a dirty word on medical threads where there always seems to be a race to the middle. The being kind thing is in slightly bad taste at the moment given other events and very arguably better directed at GANFYD. Check out recent posts mumsneedwince and see who remains polite and restrained and who posts like a ten year old.