How do you choose between Oxford and Cambridge?

[Justneedaflippingtemporaryname]

Namechanged for this as DD would not be happy if this post was too identifying.

She has been fixed on applying to Cambridge since year 10 (is in year 12 now) after going to a few talks and residentials at Cambridge university. She has never had the opportunity to visit Oxford and so is fixated on Cambridge due to familiarity. It is in her nature to not want to try new things at all.

She wants to study physics, so it would be Natsci at Cambridge and Physics at Oxford.

How does one go about choosing which to apply to?

We live in Manchester.

Thank you!

This is a really easy question.

Cool people go to Oxford; Cambridge is for nerds.

Cool people go to Oxford; Cambridge is for nerds.
Guess she's applying to Cambridge then

Dreaming spires or perspiring dreamers

Working towards the global provision of public food is surely the one thing every university student should be aspiring to?

Such a lovely idea.

Dreaming spires or perspiring dreamers

With the record temperatures last week that sounds about right!

Cool people go to Oxford; Cambridge is for nerds.

So the people who actually do cool stuff go to Cambridge?

Cool people go to Oxford; Cambridge is for nerds.

Never been called cool before. I can't imagine it sticking!

So the people who actually do cool stuff go to Cambridge?

Christ, don't let yourself be caught actually doing anything. How vulgar.

Umm - I think there used to be a lot of "hooray" types who used to get into Oxford - Johnson and Rees-Mogg come to mind (I think Cameron may have actually worked whilst there). But also Cambridge used to have a lot of "actory" types who didn't seem to do much work - David Mitchell kind of admits as much.
However I think Colleges at both places have clamped down a bit on this. I still remember the lasting shock when a pretty talented Cricketer was chucked out of Oriel for not doing well enough in his exams (should have been in line for a 1st but was on 2:2/3rd borderline with no extenuating circumstances, except for too much sport after he had been warned).

I do think the feel of both cities is enough to make the choice pretty straightforward for most people, if the course choice isn't a clear indication.

So the people who actually do cool stuff go to Cambridge?
Apparently!

I get the impression that Cambridge English students are liable to do quite a lot of actory stuff but maybe they make them work as well nowadays.

Errol in answer to your question, I have only rarely accessed FOI relevant to these sort of threads and I would guess not.
However sometime there is imprecision in how the data is packaged and presented. For example your previous comment that average grades for students can be deduced from points in some published league tables. There are caveats of course. These points often include other UCAS points. Also eg Scottish students get higher points compared to the English grades.

In any case this is all fine detail so I am not sure if at all relevant to the thread.

Also eg Scottish students get higher points compared to the English grades.

Yes, I'd not realised that till my quick look at the listings showed that St. Andrews has the highest tariff score for maths. But, as I said, apply a bit of nous and it's fairly obvious that might be the case with higher/advanced highers rather than A levels (and nowadays, few AS).

And as you say, fine detail. The reality is there will be no shortage of clever nerds at Oxford, lots of well-rounded polymaths at Cambridge etc etc.

Yes. My Scottish son has a law offer from Oxford with an AAB requirement to take into account the perceived difficulty of an Advanced Higher versus an A level.

Quatermiss may be autocorrect has the right priorities.

Errol Fewer AS but still UCAS points from other extracurricular activities or EPQs etc. Possibly balanced out between universities but that can’t be assumed

It's not secret.

from the University of Cambridge's website on applying for undergraduate study.

Follow all the links, watch the videos, and you'll know how to apply , and what they're looking for. (They're not interested in extracurricular activities.)

My DS is grappling with the same decision Justneed - NatSci at Cambridge or Physics at Oxford. I had hoped that being quite different courses would help him make the decision but they are both appealing. For his other uni choices he is looking at straight Physics rather than Natural Science but that isn’t making him lean towards Oxford because it is the particular structure and range of the Cambridge NatSci course that appeals.

He prefers Cambridge as a city - it is familiar as older DS was there for 8 years (Trinity mathmo in fact but definitely not a God!) To complicate it further older DS now lives in and works for Oxford uni ...

Decision making not helped by the fact DS was on the Issac residential in Cambridge so missed the Oxford Open day. He’s now been to visit colleges in Oxford but he couldn’t visit the department.

DS has ASD and in Oxford the colleges that meet his needs best are the most popular in terms of numbers of applications. He is concerned about that affecting his chance of getting an offer at all (it shouldn’t because of the pool system), and the higher chance of being pooled to a college which is less suitable for his needs. It is tricky because this shouldn’t be affecting his choice of applying to Oxford or Cambridge but it’s a concern for him.

Oxford isn’t harder to get into than Cambridge, especially for the STEM subjects.

Oxford has a higher applicant to places ratio because its slightly lower published offers encourage more people (including students whose profiles may be borderline) to apply.

Another factor that pushes up the applicants to places ratio: Oxford tends to be more on the radar of non-UK applicants than Cambridge is, mostly for historical-cultural reasons.

These are of course generalized observations but they do contribute to the stats which may give Oxford the appearance of being the tougher option.

To get an interview at Trinity for maths (or maths with physics), you need to have won a national olympiad, I was once basically told by someone who knows.

Trinity interview way more applicants than they have places, then flood the pool after making their offers. They really do get the best applicants from all over. Not surprisingly.

Oh and as others have suggested, international applicants self-select quite badly, especially if they are from a country where higher education is free or highly subsidized.

Your daughter will do fine at either.

It's very much down to what her personal preference is. If she wants a broader range of subjects in the first year or two (e.g. continuing with chemistry, trying out earth sciences) then Natural Sciences at Cambridge is a better choice. If she wants to do physics and physics only (with a slant towards the mathematical end of things - though there are some excellent experimental research groups in Oxford) then Oxford might suit her better.

Also visit both places and see which one she warms to. Cambridge is a smaller town. For me, anyway, there's a feeling that if you took the university out of Cambridge you'd be left with a small market town. Whereas Oxford feels more of a place in its own right. The architecture has a different feel too - there's nothing to match the pomp of the front of Kings (though I suppose Christ Church comes close), but Oxford always feels to me like it's on a cosier, more domestic scale.

Also, remember, if it doesn't pan out for her, there are some absolutely excellent physics departments outside of Oxbridge, and frankly by the time you have a PhD and post doc or two under your belt, no-one cares where you did your first degree.