How do you choose between Oxford and Cambridge?

[Justneedaflippingtemporaryname]

Namechanged for this as DD would not be happy if this post was too identifying.

She has been fixed on applying to Cambridge since year 10 (is in year 12 now) after going to a few talks and residentials at Cambridge university. She has never had the opportunity to visit Oxford and so is fixated on Cambridge due to familiarity. It is in her nature to not want to try new things at all.

She wants to study physics, so it would be Natsci at Cambridge and Physics at Oxford.

How does one go about choosing which to apply to?

We live in Manchester.

Thank you!

Sorry I got that wrong, her offer was 2 A stars and 2 As

If she likes Cambridge as a place and she likes the sound of the course, I'd say put Cambridge first on her application, because it's easier to get into, and if she puts it as her first choice that will make it even more likely she will be accepted.

Quite a few NatSci students start on one path and end up on a completely different one. I am not sure the same is true of Physics at Oxford.

I can think of potential Physicists who ended up in Chemical Engineering, Geology, History of Science and Psychology.

There are so many options. Some may not have been offered at school, so a chance to try them out.

Bloody hell - the grade inflation since my day! I got into Cambridge with four Bs. Sorry - that was an aside, and has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. I'm just a bit stunned.

The two courses are very different then, so I guess this will probably be a very big deciding factor!

Actually I'd say this is crucial. She should choose the course she wants to study, and only then worry about anything else.

If you do well on the PAT you're practically guaranteed an interview

Yes, that is what the Oxford physics department said at the open day. Complete with graphs. The threshold varies slightly each year, depending on how well that cohort scores in that year's PAT. If there are students with contextual markers who score slightly below the threshold, they invite these for interview too.

This would be an attractive option for a student who does not have especially high GCSE grades or A-level predicted grades, but is likely to do well in the PAT.

And then there's the sweet AAA offer rather than Cambridge's Two A stars and an A.*

Cambridge give out a slightly higher proportion of offers, knowing that a few students will miss the offer. And yes, for someone doing Physics, Maths, F.Maths and Chemistry, a typical offer would be A A A A.

If she is happy to spend the next four years doing solely Physics (and maths for Physics), she should probably apply to Oxford.

If she wants to be able to study other physical sciences (Chemistry, Earth Science, Materials) as well as Physics, she should probably apply to Cambridge.

Abhann the subject is important obviously but agonising about the precise course content is probably over the top, in terms of deciding between Cambridge and Oxford. With a tiny number of exceptions possibly (is Engineering one?).

And Natsci at Cambridge versus the single sciences offered at Oxford another.

Ah - I’m not saying she should choose by distance! But anyway you say she’s visiting Oxford in September, so that’s good. (Though she should try to get there again during Full Term if possible.)

They do feel very different. Cambridge feels more ‘countrified’, peaceful and kind of heavenly. Oxford is grungy, noisy and a bit of a battle day to day - very much a city.

We live somewhat further north than Manchester and consider the travel time to Cambridge well worthwhile - unless you have real constraints I wouldn't make that a major deciding factor.

They do feel very different. Cambridge feels more ‘countrified’, peaceful and kind of heavenly. Oxford is grungy, noisy and a bit of a battle day to day - very much a city.

Cambridge has cows , Oxford has Cowley.

Cambridge is the better uni for anything scientific or technology oriented.

That's too simplistic, tbh. At the research level, in some areas Oxford will be stronger than Cambridge and v v (and in some Manchester or elsewhere may beat either!). Obviously not many youngsters applying to uni will be able to have a clear idea of what specialism they might want to go into but a few might.

You choose Cambridge every time (slight bias!).

More seriously, the cities are very different. I didn't like Oxford - felt too cramped, whereas Cambridge has so many open spaces.

But I'll freely admit that for my degree (languages) the course content was pretty much the same, so I could choose purely based on the feel and location of the college.

Go to open days at both, or just visit for a weekend - you'll get a feel for the place which will really help.

Thanks so much, guys! Every single contribution has given me so much food for thought!

@TheFirstOHN am I confusing you with another poster or did your DC manage to get on the Isaac Physics residential? Fantastic achievement. Does he prefer Oxford or Cambridge?

That's too simplistic, tbh. At the research level, in some areas Oxford will be stronger than Cambridge and v v (and in some Manchester or elsewhere may beat either!). Obviously not many youngsters applying to uni will be able to have a clear idea of what specialism they might want to go into but a few might.

I totally agree with this. To the extent there are different areas of strength they are far too specific to make any difference to undergrad employability.

Oh, and DH was a scientist (not physicist though) and always says that Cambridge gave him the chance to try different branches of his subject, some of which he hated, but that was okay because nothing was final. No idea if Oxford is the same.

And nothing to do with your query, but jessamie, the Cambridge MFL course 20 years ago was full on literature - I tried to avoid it and couldn't. Although it's possible it's changed in the last 20 years...

DS1 chose Cambridge - he went to subject open days at both within a week of each other and Cambridge won hands down - it was the best fit and it felt like home for him. Atmosphere and rapport with tutors were the deciding factors.

DS2 chose Oxford for the particular course that he wants to do (niche).

In terms of cities it depends what you’re comparing them with. I find Oxford a “real” (though very pretty) city whereas Cambridge is basically a (very pretty) market town in the Fens. (I did courses in both, and lived in Cambridge for 12 years.)

My ds was initially planning on applying for Oxford because it’s “easier” to get in but went to open days at both and much preferred the facilities at Cambridge (for engineering).

Physics at Manchester Uni and Imperial College are very good if she wants to find professional work at the end of it. Cambridge Uni is good too but I don’t really know anyone who studied straight sciences there and didn’t go into research / academia - if that’s what she wants, great.

My DD is studying Natsci at Cambridge and looked carefully at both courses. In the end she chose the Cambridge option as she liked the idea of the broader foundation to her Physics given by continuing to study chemistry etc. In the event, the four subject she picked almost at random has proved absolutely fascinating to her and she is now considering specialising in that. She would never have had that discovery on the Oxford course.

She loves her course and whilst it is a lot of contact time, she has much less to do outside those hours than students on other subjects so it does balance out. She manages to do well on her course and lead a full and active life.

Good luck!

The Oxford physics course is much more theoretical and mathsy than the Cambridge one. If one didn't know which to apply to it would be worth looking at the module syllabi for each. But tbh she is likely to be happier at Cambridge anyway unless she's a particular variety of maths genius.

One thing I wish I had known at that age: I was put off Cambridge by the Natsci course structure where you have to study physics cemistry and biology in y1 before you specialise. I detested chem & bio and thought that would be miserable. What I didn't know was that CompSci students follow a similar structure and study Computer Science, physics and another subject (can't remember all options but the point is they get as much physics as physics students do) in y1 in the same way, and there is nothing stopping you from getting a physics degree by initially registering as a CompSci student and then choosing all physics modules from y2 onwards - this isn't frowned on and it's not unusual.

On the wider question it's not unusual to be fixated on either Oxford or Cambridge for entirely spurious emotional reasons. Unless there are massive quality differences in your particular subject it's generally not worth trying to overcome that initial preference.

Irrespective of University, or course, Oxford and Cambridge are very different cities with very different feelings. I have spent time in both. Very different. I think many/most people find they fit one better than the other.

2 people I know did phys-Natsci at Cambridge. I think they did geology rather than pure physics in their 3rd year. It’s an opportunity for you to try out different branches and switch - which seems sensible.

Some people have found courses (including economics) with heavy maths content very hard as further maths does not always prepare you.

Be aware that both are super competitive so at interview she needs to come across very confident that she's always dreamed of attending that university and college, and the course is exactly what she wants to do. Also be aware that even predicted grades and 100% in the exam doesn't guarantee an offer, and if you have an offer a one a* slips to an a you don't get in (one of DD's friends slipped from an offer of 2 a stars and 2 A's to one a star and 3 A's, didn't get in, another had 2 a stars and and a - already taken the June prior so confirmed - 100% in the maths exam and didn't get an offer, she tried to see what they were scribbling and saw one write, she won't fit! I would have kicked up a fuss personally, the girl in question is Afro Caribbean but she's going to Manchester who offered a £3k per year scholarship!

Basically have a plan b and try to keep expectations in check

I do think visiting both is crucial.
Oxford doesn't just have Cowley - it has both Cows and Deer too.
And part of visiting both is to at least look at a selection of Colleges, as your choice of College is important.

so at interview she needs to come across very confident that she's always dreamed of attending that university and college

That would be ridiculous. It’s not the X Factor. No-one’s interested in your dream/journey/dead grandma/poorly dog ...

Are you sure that your second/third hand ‘information’ is actually helpful stucknoue? The (recent) experience of actual Oxbridge grads or practising academics or parents of prospective students is perhaps of more use to the OP.