How do you choose between Oxford and Cambridge?

[Justneedaflippingtemporaryname]

Namechanged for this as DD would not be happy if this post was too identifying.

She has been fixed on applying to Cambridge since year 10 (is in year 12 now) after going to a few talks and residentials at Cambridge university. She has never had the opportunity to visit Oxford and so is fixated on Cambridge due to familiarity. It is in her nature to not want to try new things at all.

She wants to study physics, so it would be Natsci at Cambridge and Physics at Oxford.

How does one go about choosing which to apply to?

We live in Manchester.

Thank you!

(... parents of current or prospective parents would be better.)

I'd say put Cambridge first on her application, because it's easier to get into, and if she puts it as her first choice that will make it even more likely she will be accepted.

Where you list a university on UCAS doesn't translate into ranking - each university only sees that you have applied to it, not where else you have applied.

Unless you mean first choice, as in (having received an offer) making it your Firm rather than your Insurance choice? Then obviously, (assuming that you meet the offer) you are more likely to get in than if you don't.

And in addition to what Marchingfrogs said, that comment made no sense in the context of ox v Cambridge because (as I’m sure the op knows) you can’t specify both.

so at interview she needs to come across very confident that she's always dreamed of attending that university and college
*

Not really. It’s all about the subject. If you give the impression you’re fixated on that college then if you’re a pooled it might even impair your chances of being ‘fished’.

Yy, Errol. No one’s interested in your ‘dreams’ at interview, anymore than in your Duke of Edinburgh Gold hike or your grade six in the bassoon. They’re solely interested in (a) are you brilliantly good at, and interested in, your subject? and (b) are you someone who will benefit from the way it is taught at this institution?

And agreed about pooling. No Oxbridge college wants someone with Brideshead dreams who can’t cope with the work rate.

or did your DC manage to get on the Isaac Physics residential? Fantastic achievement

Yes, DS2 went this year. There's a fair amount of competition, so I was pleased for him when he found out he'd got in. He really enjoyed it, especially the lab sessions. He found the physics stretching (they did undergraduate level quantum mechanics) but he went in expecting that, and the atmosphere was collaborative and supportive. They stayed in Churchill (for proximity to Cavendish Laboratory) but had a tour of a few other colleges on their afternoon off.

DS2 would like to apply to Cambridge (but would also be happy with Birmingham or Warwick). The other delegates (there were about 30 of them) were mostly planning to apply for NatSci at Cambridge or Physics at Oxford or Imperial.

gospa 's DS also qualified for the summer school.

I stand corrected about MFL! But I nevertheless think a student would tend to strongly prefer the vibe at either Oxford or Cambridge. My own DC happen to find Cambridge very quiet.

Go to Cambridge.

DD wanted to keep her options open as she loved both physics and chemistry so she never considered Oxford although she had Bristol for Chemical Physics as her insurance. She has just finished 2nd year at Cambridge doing phys Natsci and loves it. Having flirted briefly with earth science she is going to specialise in material science for the final year. She has found her “thing”. There is no doubt it is really hard work - she thinks only her architecture friends spend more time working- but she loves the structure and the bike rides out to West Cambridge (where materials department is) are on cycle paths (and yes, through the cows at times!). She interviewed in maths and chemistry and said there was not one question about why the college or why Cambridge or about anything on the personal statement. Just a whiteboard and a pen and some really interesting problems to work through in front of the interviewers.

Manchester has an excellent reputation for Physics..don’t pigeon hole yourselves.

Yes, hopefully the OPs DD knows there are some great options for physics in other British unis. Being 'fixated' on either oxford or Cambridge is something it would be wise to try to moderate, given the applicant/offer ratios. Aspire to one of them, absolutely, but realism is important.

Agree with most of the advice from PPs.

The only real dilemma between the two is for a student who would choose a natural sciences approach for first year (and therefore Cambridge course) but prefers the Oxford city vibe. Or a student that is neutral towards both courses and either location.

This is probably not relevant to your DD but following-up on FossiPajuZeka’s post, for those preferring theoretical physics it is also possible to do physics at Cambridge via mathematics with physics in the first year and then switch to physics from the second year.

chitchattery - I suspect our DDs will know each other! Material Science is a small world...

workingitout- probably! I hope they both enjoy it!

she tried to see what they were scribbling and saw one write, she won't fit! I would have kicked up a fuss personally, the girl in question is Afro Caribbean

Nonsense. It's this kind of bilge that puts off the students that Oxbridge is trying to attract.

She interviewed in maths and chemistry and said there was not one question about why the college or why Cambridge or about anything on the personal statement. Just a whiteboard and a pen and some really interesting problems to work through in front of the interviewers.

Thank you chitchattery for this feedback which confirms what DS2 has been told at admissions talks.

This is probably not relevant to your DD but following-up on FossiPajuZeka’s post, for those preferring theoretical physics it is also possible to do physics at Cambridge via mathematics with physics in the first year and then switch to physics from the second year.

I think that requires STEP as well as the a level grades. Afaik that's not needed for Natsci physicists, though it's always a good idea to check individual college requirements -there's one college which wants STEP for engineering.

I'm still reading and making notes. All very helpful- thank you!

The admissions talks she has had have said they'll never ask ' why Cambridge?'

To the PP that mentioned Computer Science (on my phone and can't scroll back), they've scrapped that now, you can't take it as part of Natsci, which is a shame bc computer science is a subject she is interested in too and would have selected given the option.

She knows Oxbridge is an aspiration and the odds aren't great, but I guess you have to really commit because the admissions process is so rigorous. She thinks she knows her other four UCAS options but the problem is their entrance requirements are all so similar so I don't know how one goes about choosing an insurance

Chitchattery & Workingitout, snap! DD will be starting year 3 specialising in Materials Science in the autumn and loves it.

FossiPajuZeka's post is misleading. You don't have to study Physics, Chemistry & Biology in the 1st year at all. DD is currently at work so I can't ask her, but from what I remember, she had to do a Maths module for Physical NatSci. She chose Physics, Chemistry & Materials Science in year 1, then Chemistry, Materials & History & Philosophy of Science this year. She loves the breadth of the course. When she applied, she thought Chemistry was her thing, but the NatSci course has allowed her to study subjects not available at school and indeed she has opted to pursue those further (a fact I pointed out to the head of 6th form who claimed that anyone applying for NatSci couldn't make up their mind what to study - he is one of my most despised colleagues).

Her offer was AAAA but she definitely didn't do STEP. As chitchattery has said, the 2 interviews she had required her to think out loud and use her knowledge and reasoning skills to solve problems. The interview process at Cambridge was much shorter than at Oxford. We travelled up the night before, she stayed in college and had interviews at 9.30 and 11. She was free to leave at 11.30. We were back in Devon just after 4pm as the M25 was the clearest I have ever seen it.

No substitute for going there to see both places. DD had a boyfriend in Oxford for 4 terms and whilst she liked his college, she preferred Cambridge.

the problem is their entrance requirements are all so similar so I don't know how one goes about choosing an insurance

DS2 also found this. The four year MPhys / MSci courses nearly all mention the same typical offer of A* A A.

For a safety / insurance choice, there are a couple of options:

1. Some courses advertising a typical offer of A* A A were undersubscribed this year and are in the Clearing list published by UCAS in early July. (Warwick, Nottingham etc). It is possible that they might accept offer-holders who narrowly miss the grades.

1. There are courses with lower typical offers (e.g. Southampton is AAA and at the open day they said AABC for four A-levels).

1. Several of the universities said that if the applicant narrowly misses the offer for MPhys / MSci, they will be willing to accept them on the BSc course. There is usually flexibility to move from there to the integrated Masters course if they perform well enough at the end of year 2.

I think that requires STEP as well as the a level grades. Afaik that's not needed for Natsci physicists
You are of course right Errol but those aiming for theoretical physics should be very strong mathematicians and able to achieve STEP. grades.

FossiPajuZeka's post is misleading. You don't have to study Physics, Chemistry & Biology in the 1st year at all.
Yes I missed that. Of course for physical sciences there is no need to do Biology.

It comes down to which course is best first and foremost.

If she wants to have the option to cover other related sciences then Cambridge is probably the better option.
If she wants to study entirely physics then Oxford is the better option.
If she's not sure between the two courses then it might help her to do more reflection on her interests and ambitions before moving onto other selection criteria as when it comes to interview for such competitive courses she'll be up against applicants who know exactly why they want to study a specific course.

If she likes Cambridge University and the city then that's probably a good thing.

Ultimately the course has to be the main factor between two different approaches.

Good luck.

DS has just finished his first year of NatSci. If he hadn't got in he would have studied theoretical physics.

His offer was 2 A and 2 As. However, he didn't check the typical offers from different colleges carefully, and his As had to be in Physics and Further Maths, so effectively a 3 A offer (old style A levels). He says some colleges don't specify/have Maths as A so it's worth checking.

He's really enjoyed the course but it is hard work! He did take CompSci as an option, but was warned it is really hard, and so it proved, which is perhaps why they are stopping it. I think he is glad he took it, as he could have studied CompSci and this showed him that Physics is right for him.

He was in an "advanced" Maths group - so Phys NatSci has two Maths groups, the advanced one is for people who got a solid A* in FM, i.e. really good at Maths (but probably not as good as the Mathmos!). They go faster and more in depth than the other group but take the same exam.

He will probably choose 2 physics courses and maths next year, so actually still specialising heading towards specialising as originally thought, but I think there are many different options in the third year within Physics. The advantage has been, he has tried different options and had labs, which many/most? Theoretical Physics courses don't do.

His offer was 2 A stars and 2 As. However, he didn't check the typical offers from different colleges carefully, and his A stars had to be in Physics and Further Maths, so effectively a 3 A star offer (old style A levels). He says some colleges don't specify/have Maths as A star so it's worth checking.

Yes!!
This is why I got confused up-thread and said the YouTube vlogger's offer was 3 A stars and an A when it wasn't. The A stars had to be in Further Maths and physics or chemistry. She got A stars in Maths and Further maths, and As in Chem and Phys. So missed her offer with 2A* and 2A
This is why the AAA of Oxford seems like a dream (assuming it would be AAAA for those doing four)

Thanks Lolasmiles

That's interesting TheFirstOHN. I think Warwick is most likely her insurance at the moment.