Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

latest University tables - how seriously should it be taken?

98 replies

meeeeeeeeee · 10/06/2019 16:22

The University my son has chosen has one of the worst student satisfaction ratings but is traditionally very highly rated for both course and University - would you take it seriously?

OP posts:
thesandwich · 10/06/2019 16:37

Look at the ratings for his course- they vary across unis

FatCreep · 10/06/2019 16:59

Depends entirely on what course at what university. If this were medicine at King's College London, for example, I would say look very carefully at why the final-year students are so dissatisfied because it happens year after year. If it's an institution with a very high proportion of international students (e.g. LSE), bear in mind that there might be particular issues affecting those students. In any case, NSS figures are often misleading as a single non-academic issue - e.g. difficulties with parking - can have a significant influence if they happen to occur at just the wrong time.

Outside of sports where results depend on numbers of goals, tries, etc., scored, there is no such thing as a reliable league table. They are all based on dubious analysis of flawed data. University league tables are less reliable than school league tables, which are themselves worthless. (My own university ranks very highly in both NSS and Guardian league tables, but I still don't think they're meaningful.)

TheFirstOHN · 10/06/2019 17:12

Student satisfaction (which is heavily weighted in the Guardian table) is quite a subjective measure, and can vary from one year to the next. It only takes a small group to become disgruntled with one particular aspect of the way a course is taught (or even one member of staff) and then share their dissatisfaction on social media, and this can have a cascade effect within that year group.

By the time your son is there, the issue causing dissatisfaction could have disappeared anyway.

The Times table and the CUG table are more consistent from year to year (and also with each other).

BubblesBuddy · 10/06/2019 17:28

Imperial used to suffer in these tables but who wouldn’t go to Imperial? Some students want a lot of hand holding and some universities don’t really work like that. Some students don’t like a university if they didn’t get a first! They mark it down. I would take reputation over these surveys.

Needmoresleep · 10/06/2019 17:52

My understanding, based on what DS has said, is that LSE students take pride in coming at the bottom of student satisfaction tables, so it becomes self fulfilling.

It is worth unpicking what might cause lower student satisfaction rates and whether those apply to your son.

St Andrews gets really high student satisfaction, as does Buckingham, but both Universities will only suit some.

Equally International students; London etc will affect LSE results, even though some students will prefer London to other cities or campuses. Also type of degree. I have heard LSE academics claim that economic and politics students are more questioning thus critical. And how hard is the degree? LSE degrees tend to be quite mathematical, so tough for those for whom maths does not come easily, but great for those who prefer maths to essays. It also helps to be a self-starter. Equally some places seem to expect students to work harder, or in the case of LSE the culture/student body is relatively hard working, so those who don't, risk failing one or more exams.

I disagree with Bubbles. DS knew several people who were unhappy at LSE and might have preferred to go to Warwick. DS was fine and probably would not have liked Warwick. The same will apply to Imperial. It is three/four important years in your DS' life, so he should think about what will suit him. (And ignore the Guardian!)

ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2019 17:55

When we were looking at various uni tables when DD was in the process of choosing, a couple of things became apparent.

  1. some of those statistics are based on very small samples (self selected, I think, for the 'soft' criteria like student satisfaction.
  2. some students are likely to be more or less easily satisfied than others. Their criteria may be quite different.

So, we took the 'soft' stats with a large pinch of salt. The 'feeling' of a department on open days/applicant days may be worth more consideration.

Mustbetimeforachange · 10/06/2019 17:57

If it's the Guardian tables, they always seem very different to the others. I think it's the weighting. I wouldn't take too much notice, it's more about putting all the information together and making an informed decision.

Mustbetimeforachange · 10/06/2019 17:59

who wouldn’t go to Imperial?
Me! I would hate being a student in London. Apart from anything it's so expensive. And Imperial has a reputation for having no community feel about it due to the high number of foreign students.

fedup21 · 10/06/2019 18:02

Which tables, OP? Do you have a link?

ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2019 18:12

who wouldn’t go to Imperial?

Me, DD - but that's London rather than imperial itself.
Conversely, some students may hate quieter towns or non central campuses - with small sample sizes, it would only take a few who'd chosen the wrong location for them to skew the data.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2019 19:14

Very curious how they come up with the staff/student ratios on that table.

meeeeeeeeee · 10/06/2019 19:39

Many thanks for all your comments- I had noticed that the student satisfaction levels were low last year but was told that the reviews should be seen a bit like trip advisor- people only fill in the survey if they live or hate it.

OP posts:
plugadaptor · 10/06/2019 19:43

Take the guardian league tables with a big pinch of salt.

titchy · 10/06/2019 19:52

Guardian ones exclude research which is why they're far more volatile than CUG and Times.

All London institutions score poorly in the NSS - it's a feature of London rather than the institutions themselves, although LSE has had some significant issues lately.

There some evidence that the higher percentage of responses the higher the scores - reason being pissed off students always complete the survey. Reasonably happy students often don't bother.

The more academically rigorous institutions tend to get lower scores too - going to university is hard work and some don't like that!

Subject satisfaction will be more revealing though. Have finalists always been unhappy with resources for example? If so why hasn't this been addressed? Or has it?

sendsummer · 10/06/2019 20:01

IME there are some reasons for poorer satisfaction scores which are useful to know about although should not necessarily dissuade from a university course. Generally universities that have a higher proportion of lectures by good communicators and / or better help to explain and reinforce concepts (frequent good tutorials etc) score more highly. So somewhere like Imperial for example has world class excellent academics but quality of lectures and tutorials is reported to quite variable.
The other main issue is feedback to help improvement. Again universities with a strong tutorial system which allows more handholding tend to do better on this.

Finally (and this relates to the other two) whether exams are well set and marked. This does not mean exams have to be easy but perceived to be fair.

GCAcademic · 10/06/2019 20:32

Put it this way. I don’t think any academic is going to be advising their offspring to study at Suffolk if they want to read History, or Bolton if they want to read English, despite both these courses being ranked second in the country, ahead of Oxford, St Andrews, Bristol, Warwick, etc. The evidence on which this particular league table is based is nebulous to say the least (and I say that as someone whose department was ranked top in the country for that subject last year). As someone has already mentioned, the more rigorous courses are often scored more harshly by students.

uzfrdiop · 10/06/2019 20:59

Very curious how they come up with the staff/student ratios on that table.

You are right to be cautious - these numbers may not be an accurate representation of the reality for many reasons, not just the obvious point that some academics may not teach much (management roles, bought out by research grants).

PhossyJaw · 10/06/2019 21:05

What TheFirst said. Our departmental student satisfaction rating had been 100% for five years, then last year it suddenly dipped to 80 something — eight students unhappy with their dissertation supervisor had had a hugely disproportionate effect on the total rating.

Decormad38 · 10/06/2019 21:14

In my HEI students don’t seem to even read or understand the question they complete. One group were dissatisfied because of their travel to work placement which was an entirely different thing. They just thought they would comment on that there! I heard one student say she was going to give a low rating because school told her she was academic yet she just scraped 40s in her essays! The list goes on.

titchy · 10/06/2019 21:21

We were marked down because our chairs weren't comfortable enough...

sendsummer · 10/06/2019 21:54

the more rigorous courses are often scored more harshly by students.
One has to compare like with like. So for example between Oxbridge versus Imperial or LSE the courses are all rigorous but ratings will be different. The reasons for that should not be disregarded as it can help prepare realistic expectations for the course.

eight students unhappy with their dissertation supervisor had had a hugely disproportionate effect on the total rating
And that is the point I made above. Variability within a department for the quality in teaching will impact on the scores.

ShanghaiDiva · 11/06/2019 06:34

I would not take it too seriously. When ds was looking at universities we spend time considering what was important to him and what would make him happy and immediately ruled out anywhere in London. He felt that employability after his degree and university reputation were more important that satisfaction scores.
He is just finishing his first year at Warwick and it has been a good choice for him - excellent sports facilities, campus, decent accommodation, proximity to Tesco...etc
As pp mentioned there is often an inconsistency of teaching within departments and this can affect satisfaction scores. Ds has had some excellent lecturers and one that was absolutely appalling (in his opinion).

BubblesBuddy · 11/06/2019 08:26

I did mean that, all other aspects of the university and course being what you wanted, and Imperial (as an example of low satisfaction scores) was your top choice, you wouldn’t say no to it just because of student satisfaction rates. I was assuming all the other aspects of the university did meet the student’s criteria. That’s what the OP was really asking in her first post. I would take student satisfaction out of decision making, partly because it’s other people’s views. You may well disagree and it might be the best choice for you even if it wasn’t for others.

peteneras · 11/06/2019 08:27

Loughborough - 4
King's College London - 63

Bath - 6
Queen Mary - 83

Bloody fantastic! Grin

Swipe left for the next trending thread