Applying for Uni 2019 Part 6: exams, leaving school/college (the end of an era), a long summer holiday and Results Day on the horizon

[NewModelArmyMayhem18]

Just when exam season gets fully underway our previous thread has almost filled up. Everyone welcome .

@maryso But how many universities use additional tests to ‘flush out’ aptitude? Except for specific courses eg Medicine, dentistry, vet med?? & outside of the golden five I can’t think of any.

What I really would like to know is how do lecturers manage classes with a mixed cohort?

My head is hurting just reading the last two pages!!

DS has his unconditional ; but that does mean he is not allowed to go into clearing or adjustment. All the unis he applied for still have places.

Shimy, STEP for maths is the obvious one that distinguishes interested mathematicians from some who see Maths A level as a relatively soft option. Places that used to just go by grades have re-introduced interviews for some applicants, and it may not be long before AI interviews go mainstream. Thinking skills assessments, portfolios are quite common. The companies writing online school entrance tests have been selling these for a long time now.

There are so many learning tools on offer at universities that most students will identify their weaker areas and work on those, if they have the ability. In most places, there is no need to rely on 'human' tutorials to steer, as much as in previous generations. A mixed ability cohort at university is considerably less mixed ability than at sixth form. Hence the importance of the adequate calibre of bum for empty seats. It makes sense for universities to give students who for whatever reasons may have slipped a grade but are otherwise capable of graduating well, a place. It works for the university and it works for the student, employer, economy...

@Piggywaspushed I think the unconditional would have to release him if he were to participate in Clearing/Adjustment then take up an offer elsewhere. Nothing to stop him calling up potential unis on results day first though.

Oh, I think we all know that won't happen!!

I love the idea of someone being called malarkey so you can @malarkey them @shimy

Dd had an interview for hers which was academic - amongst other things they were asked to interpret previously unseen to them satellite data, discuss a paper they were given in advance, answer A level subject questions & give a presentation. Most of the students who were invited for the interview were people she recognised from a summer school which the department runs.

Atm they only interview for one subject within the faculty but will be rolling it out to all their subjects. They've demonstrated a much stronger relationship between performance/grading at interview & degree outcome than between A level results & the same. Their position is that as a knowledge based degree there is a certain baseline A level performance required but that there are way too many confounding factors to suggest that an A* student will perform better in the degree than an A or B student.

They’ve also reduced their offers for their most competitive course from AAA to AAB with end of year one results being used to select students who go on to that course. Requiring As was excluding too many students who subsequently performed better than the ones initially getting As. A truly exceptional student should continue to be exceptional, it just levels the field slightly. They gave us a nice hand out with all their statistical analysis! Much easier & cheaper just to look a A levels though.

@maryso Do you think interviews across all. courses might disadvantage some students who can’t, “talk the talk”?

😄@Piggywaspushed I tried the username “argybargy” once, it was already taken.

Soo.. if you miss the requirements for your firm choice will you have an immediate acceptance (despite lowered grades) or rejection, from the uni that morning?

If rejected is that it - no point talking to them because they’ll have their numbers from other students? Which presumably means they’re also unlikely to be in clearing for that subject?

Can’t believe I just started relaxing after my son’s last exam, and now I’m getting all stressed about the processes coming up around results :)

@maryso who sees maths a level as a soft option @-@

@MrKlaw the ucas track normally updates pretty swiftly. Your dc can ring to plead their case especially if the course is in clearing or it is a narrow miss, or ask about similar courses(ie.joint honours) with possibility of transferring to main subject if they prove themselves.

Shimy, interviewers want the best they can get. So it makes sense to make the candidate comfortable and more able to give a full and fair account of themselves. It is part of the selection, and in the recruiter's interest to avoid bias and ensure relevant scope.

Sometimes this can get a little lost in translation, and it is true that jobsworth-types can be found in unlikely places. It can help to tell candidates that it is more important for them to 'test' the recruiter than the other way around. It is a chunk of your once-and-only life, while you are only one of the next batch of livestock, so to speak, to them. Obviously both parties should be respectful, but it is a two-way street.

MrKlaw, I think that Maths has been seen as a soft option for A* GCSE students in the past, especially STEM students that needed a 3rd subject, and syllabi that could be taught to the test. That applies not just for Maths. In my day for example Maths was at least as challenging as Physics, but for over at least a decade that has not been so. Having A level grade boundaries that are more spread and less high are seen as more fair by teenagers, even the ones who cry during the papers. How badly you feel during a test is not a reliable indicator of your relative success. Science candidates from the last two years have already been through what Maths has this year.

Your dc can ring to plead their case especially if the course is in clearing or it is a narrow miss

In general universities will drop at least as low and sometimes one grade lower for students who have firm/insurance offers, than their clearing offer. They have the results several days before clearing opens & they will almost always make definitive decisions before the results go to students. So if you are rejected then calling up and pleading is likely to have very little effect - the case will have been considered, the rules applied & the person at the end of the phone line won't have the authority to override the original decision.

Maryso, I can see the Oxbridge interview scenarios playing out if all universities go down that route. Private school students are more likely to pass interviews because they are better prepared.

Places that used to just go by grades have re-introduced interviews for some applicants

But the vast majority of courses are "recruiting", taking all students who achieve the offer (or miss it by a grade). This won't change any time soon given the financial pressures on universities.

You can be held dangling sometimes while the uni makes up their mind. It happened to someone I knew and they ended up taking an offer elsewhere and being pro active.

Yes, students can be held dangling while they figure out how many insurances & clearing students they are likely to get. But this is relatively unusual. And if you are rejected phone calls really aren't likely to change this.

My two (already at university) were talking about this today. One said those on his course with lower A level grades found things quite hard and got bad marks because a lot of his course is "reading" in the traditional sense the subject so in a sense he teaches himself and that the skills he uses which seem to get him high grades he says he learned at school i.e. being able (in his subject) to write good essays. So I suppose some offers to those with grades that are not good enough might not really be a good idea for students who then struggle at that particular university.

DD's BF was rejected from his firm and insurance. He rang his insurance who wouldn't budge, and ended up going through clearing. He absolutely loves where he is. TBH I'm not sure he would have enjoyed his firm because he is lazy and would have hated the workload.

Universities are quite happy to take first year students who don't quite achieve the grades and will do so until they have filled their places they are not going to turn away £9000 plus per student, they may even get through to second year and another £9000 in university pocket. The big cull comes at the end of the second year (can't have people leaving with a third class degree and don't want too many lower seconds).

MrKlaw, I asked that question at Birmingham Uni, and was told if you didn't meet the grades you'd be rejected and there was no point pleading your case. Half an hour later, talking to a student showing us around she told us she didn't meet the grades, constantly pester them in the day and they gave in!!

DD plans to phone her firm if she doesn't get it. Her PS shows she's determined and a hard worker, not sure if that'll help but I suspect the particular uni will only take close misses as they don't enter clearing.

I talked my way into to university with a stellar (!) BC. Same grades Prince Charles went to Cambridge with!

Yesterday DS sat the Edexcel replacement Further Maths paper and fortunately thought it was quite straightforward.

One more paper to go (on Monday). We are very jealous of all those who have already finished!