Oxbridge 2020

[GinWorksForMe]

Is it too early for an Oxbridge 2020 thread? I'm feeling in need of some hand holding through this process...

DS1 is going to apply to Cambridge for Maths. Doesn't know yet whether to name a college or put in an open application, so any tips gratefully received. We have visited two (very different) colleges and been to a Maths Open Day. It's unlikely we're going to have the opportunity to visit many more colleges as their open days seem to be on Saturdays and DS1 has a paid job Saturdays and Sundays.

Anyone else applying for Oxbridge for 2020 entry and want to share the journey?

The rise of the use of aptitude tests is directly linked to the demise of AS levels as standard and the reversion to 2 year A level courses. Students were applying with AS results in hand whereas now they don't. Obviously Oxford has used them for longer but that is why Cambridge are now also going down that route.

I totally agree with Aurea. The school should never have been making the assumption that noone was going to be making an application rather the reverse. They should have made the assumption someone might be and therefore passed on the relevant information they had clearly received. Again this shows there is a misconception in some schools as to who should be applying or the not for the likes of us attitude.

Oxbridge are quite clear that the ps should cover supercurricular. Churchill (Cambridge) gave a talk at our school and it clearly states on the power point slide "Extra Curricular activities do not figure in our considerations". They look for super curricular which again from the same slide it says

"Super-curricular exploration is vital to show commitmenr and build knowledge and understanding
. Wider reading
.Other wider exploration
. Relevant work experience.

However this can of course be covered by purely reading texts relevant to the subject. However the mistake some candidates apparently make is merely listing I did this, read that etc rather than saying why something was of interest to them or why they disagreed with something.

They were very clear that selection was holistic taking into account results in A levels (or equivalent) , gcses, UCAS reference, PS, contextual data, admissions tests results, submitted work and performance at interview. The power point slides in plain simple English have been the best resource I have found so far and I think I have exhausted the Oxford website looking for anything I can possibly glean. I do not think it is necessarily the easiest website to navigate.

Also as a resident of Cambridge DS will not apply to Cambridgeso one decision is made automatically and I hope that the Churchill, Cambridge presentation will be similar to what Oxford wants too.

We are lucky to have had this talk as DS is at a superselective whoch has a high number of Oxbridge candidates and offers each year and geographically close enough for Churchill to send someone out to speak to yr 12 in February so with plenty of time to join the process. Others as discussed up thread are not lucky enough but on the basis that these are the criteria they say they are using DS would be unwise not to do so. If a low performing state school candidate doesn't provide this info does it disadvantage their pupil who doesn't cover this in a PS or their school doesn't cover relevant stuff in their statement? Does it then have a knock on effect into their performance in interview? Or do the Colleges accept these candidates may be weaker in these areas of their application and make allowances? Who knows? I don't and they don't say. I do know that contextual info is only regarding their performance in the context of their school and in ACORN/POLAR measures but that a candidate would still be expected to meet the minimum A level requirement for their course whatever context or background they are from.

I am.on my phone typing this so apologies in advance for any typos and for the length of this. It was merely thoughts onto paper.

Using DS2 (Physics / Natural Sciences) as an example:

Supercurricular activities:

• Participating in an ongoing project with UKATC to identify targets for the James Webb Telescope.
• Senior Physics Challenge (awaiting results).
• Attending various Physics lectures (he has kept a list).
• Reading various Physics books (he has kept a list).
• Strong performances in UKMT Maths challenges.
• Volunteers as a learning support assistant at school, helping younger students with Maths.
• Independently working through the first chapters of the Cavendish Quantum Mechanics Primer (planned for summer holidays).

Extracurricular activities:

• Playing clarinet (G8+) in a couple of orchestras. Slowly working towards performance diploma.
• Set up a D&D club at school and has been running this for 3 years.

He sees supercurricular as the activities relevant to his subject, and extracurricular as activities unrelated to the course he wants to study.

Took me so long to type that out (also on my phone) that I cross-posted with OKBobble

OKBobble thank you for sharing the information from the Churchill talk; it's useful and confirms the impression DS2 got from the masterclass (he attended alone).

Supracurricular matters... I wonder if DC aren’t already doing this for themselves( reading books, watching TV, In Our Time podcasts aren’t costly or exclusive) then maybe they aren’t going to thrive once they are at somewhere like Oxbridge ?
Someone last year who is an interviewing academic posted about how they are looking for mental agility and a spark. They emphasised it absolutely was NOT the same as polish, confidence or articulacy and that the interviewers know it when they see it. I wish I could remember where I saw it.
Travel; sympathies. DD also interested in St Andrews, now that is a tit-pain to get to! And much posher Visiting Day with barely any diversity dare I say? Course looked great annoyingly! ( I know it’s quite Scots heavy but then so is DD!)

DS and I visited Oxford over Easter hols and had arranged to meet a couple of admissions people at 2 colleges who confirmed Oxford were looking for the same in a PS.

There are already a couple of books out there for How to apply to Oxbridge but they do date very quickly and presumably have only a very limited audience. The unis update their websites and forums like these and TSR can usually be the easiest way to find the latest up to the minute info and it is great to draw on a variety of anecdotal evidence to see a bigger picture.

I am sure GoodbyeStranger that your DC did include supercurricular in their PS even if you/they didn't appreciate that it had its own terminology at that point hence successful applications.

Oof, cross posted with less articulacy than guys above, sorry

OKBobble we don't know that the teacher meant she assumed no-one would apply. I would take it to mean that she (very reasonably) assumed that no pupil would make the journey to Oxford from the North of Scotland for a half day session. Doing that is about as extreme an example of dedication that I can imagine.

Hobbema - that point was made at the parents talk when ds went to his Cambridge history masterclass. Have you perhaps attended one of those? (Too lazy to scroll back through this now lengthy thread to see if you mentioned going to one)!

OKBobble yes absolutely they did include it. But they didn't have to be told by anyone to seek out what I now know to be 'supercurricular' stuff, it just came their way in the nature of things. I'm not convinced you can force these things - they're either interested or they're not.

Gosh it's a bit terrifying hearing how much you all know about this process and about all the extra things some children are doing!

Goodbye - I still think that the teacher should never make any assumptions and that a To all year 12 email stating here is some info from Oxford for anyone who mighy be interested takes 2 seconds and by not doing this she may have done her students a disservice. Luckily for miniAurea Aurea was already on it. Butbthis type of attitude from a teacher no less shows why some people are not getting the access they deserve despite Oxbridge attempting to provide an outreach service.

And just to add, I don't think any 'supercurricular' stuff clinched their offer directly. Their aptitude tests were all on the high side which would have been far more influential, but their general interest in and aptiude for their subject, evidenced by the 'supercurricular', might have fed into those scores obliquely.

Agree with that but it's much more readily comprehensible than the same neglect on the particular issue from a teacher in Swindon say.

Goodbye
They didn't expect anyone to apply full stop. They also didn't pass on the info (which they had been given) for a law two day residential course. All expenses were offered for this too.

The lack of tuition fees in Scotland may contribute to this mindset. Why pay for something when you can get it for free?

Sorry lots of cross posting: Goodbye, I agree re super curricular to some extent. However now the Oxbridge colleges are being more specific that they expect this it gets harder to differentiate between those genuinely with a passion (although they all agree never to use the word passion in a ps) and those that are PS padding so to speak. That is why the interview process separates out the men from the boys (women from the girls) and the spark shows! Just as they expect a certain number of A*s or equivalent at gcses and so on they expect a certain checklist of super curricular as detailed in the earlier attachment from either Pallando/Basilisk.

This has become more the norm. Cambridge obviously allows for more of this by way of its supplementary questionnaires and I suspect that Oxford may end up doing similar at some point too.

Aurea yes I do understand the Scottish situation (and communications!) so I can kind of get why the prospect of Oxford and Cambridge is minimised - politics will play a part with a fair few teachers too.

Yes - from stats I have seen the aptitude tests seem to be the real factor that sorts the offers from non offers! Presumably because that aptitude itself would show well in interview which itself is almost an oral aptitude test rather than an interview in the way we would interview for a job or on the Graham Norton Show.

Well , OP whether you call it extra curricular or super curricular , Ds ( according later to his tutor) had a very good interview because he has just learnt more about his subject by himself than was laid out in the school curriculum. Nothing to do with sports or DoE or the like. As a pp said - because it was history it was probably relatively easy. The Cambridge Super curricular looks like a great starting point. I wonder if they have been too prescriptive and then people will just do what is on there ? Don't know. So can only speak of History but DS read loads and indeed always had since he was about 7. It was his thing. We went to the museum in Anglesey once and DS was trying to tell the curator that the boot Uxbridge wore in their glass cabinet could not have been contemporaneous. Needless to say DH & I did not have a clue - but a hint as to Ds did not "revise" for history - he just loved it. Not all of it , but enough to get through an interview and bright enough to do an aptitude test. As said upthread , friend from northern comprehensive got higher marks than he,

I forgot some colleges won't let you walk on the grass. I'm sure his reaction to that is going to be 'interesting'!!

Murray Edwards positively encourages its students to walk, sit and sprawl on the grass (it was one of the benefits DD noted when pooled). It's pretty much opposite Churchill and the 'hill colleges' (the other being fitzwilliam) mix and mingle quite a bit.

And there's quite a lot of public green space in Cambridge.

But they didn't have to be told by anyone to seek out what I now know to be 'supercurricular' stuff, it just came their way in the nature of things. I'm not convinced you can force these things - they're either interested or they're not.

Yup - it's what I was thinking about upthread. E.g. DD designed and built a robot using basic components in the hols after GCSEs because, heck, why wouldn't she?

It's probably a bit easier for kids who've had some idea of what they might want to do from a younger age, I suppose.

GinWorksforMe - don't be scared off but absorb as much as you can and ask if you are not sure. People are very helpful I have found.

This thread has been very subscribed to today and there is a fair bit of cross posting and I have had a bit of verbal diarrhoea so apologise for going on at length especially if preaching to the converted.

I suspect this is going to be one of those threads that becomes multi-continued bearing in mind its only May and 8 months until interviews and 9 until offers!

Yes DS is the youngest and has always liked history (and visited museums, read around the subject to further what he has learnt at school to to widen his knowledge in different areas) but thought he might needs to do economics for the career he wants to pursue but has found out he doesn't. It is quite nice to have one who knows want he wants to do and what subject he wants to read at uni because the older 2 didn't and one is about to graduate and still has no idea. The eldest has taken a career path I never expected, was the one I was most worried about as not particularly academic but is already earning a 6 figure sum at 26! So what do I know! They all find their own paths whatever they may be. As their mum I am here to help where I can and when they need it. It is great to have support from others going through the same stage as you on here though.

Yes - from stats I have seen the aptitude tests seem to be the real factor that sorts the offers from non offers! Presumably because that aptitude itself would show well in interview which itself is almost an oral aptitude test rather than an interview in the way we would interview for a job or on the Graham Norton Show.

The exact format of interview varies with subject and also I think by college. DD had one which was a bit of a train wreck in which the interviewer seemed to have used the PS to work out what not to bother asking her about. Then there was a mathsy test, which apparently most people don't finish and the idea was to complete/discuss in the second interview- however she'd managed to do it all well enough, so the second guy came up with a fun question (something like calculating how to throw a ball down a mineshaft from orbit). The point wasn't necessarily to get the right answer but to be asking the right questions to get towards it IYSWIM.

People definitely just need to do what interests them in terms of activity, for the sake of just enjoying what they are doing.

If an activity looks like their cup of tea, then go for it. Don't do something just because it might make them more likely to be able to get into Oxbridge. Which ever university they end up at, life is much nicer if they really enjoy their subject.

Please don't worry about long lists of activities, or that somehow your child is behind because they don't have a potential CV as long as their arm. All they need is to be very very good at their subject and to love it. Sometimes they may have not found that love until recently or may be torn by similar subjects. That's ok. The tests are an obvious hurdle, but hopefully, with practice that will come good.

These threads can cause people so much unnecessary stress.

Yes. DS has been told that there are no wrong answers and especially with history after exploring an idea they may introduce further evidence and ask whether your answer differs now. He has been told it is ok to ask further questions but basically to think out loud ie. If this happens then this, but if this then that so they see his thought process. Apparently some incredibly clever people get very set ideas sometimes and are not flexible enough in their thinking processes to perform well at interview but leave thinking they did because they are convinced they got the answer right.