Oxbridge 2020

[GinWorksForMe]

Is it too early for an Oxbridge 2020 thread? I'm feeling in need of some hand holding through this process...

DS1 is going to apply to Cambridge for Maths. Doesn't know yet whether to name a college or put in an open application, so any tips gratefully received. We have visited two (very different) colleges and been to a Maths Open Day. It's unlikely we're going to have the opportunity to visit many more colleges as their open days seem to be on Saturdays and DS1 has a paid job Saturdays and Sundays.

Anyone else applying for Oxbridge for 2020 entry and want to share the journey?

Re the school reference; at parents talk I attended on a Masterclass day, admissions officer stressed that what they want to see and very often don’t is hard metrics on where your DC is in the year group.

hobbema, presumably they didn't say whether the university had asked for something along those lines to be added to What to include in the How to write UCAS Undergraduate references section on the UCAS website? There is information on including contextual data, but that is more geared towards 'reasons why the candidate may not have achieved as well as expected', rather than 'how this candidate compares to our students generally'. Other universities may also find the information useful, I suppose, not just Cambridge.

Frogs, hi! No, I didn’t get the sense that she was asking for specific justification of performance that might be less than stellar. They want to know eg DC is 2nd/3rd whatever in their year in this subject, rather than DC is a wonderful historian. Did say that lots of schools don’t “like” doing it . They want a sense of your ranking and “trajectory”. They don’t expect every applicant to be “top of the class”.Must stress just my notes from one talk ( at Cambridge). Others with far more knowledge than me on here but when trying to understand why applicants with amazing qualifications don’t get offers it’s trying to gauge potential that’s maybe part of the equation? Unenviable task it seems and more highly charged every year.

I should limit my contributions, having made a poor start last night. But having said that :): hobbema, selective schools find this thing about position within a cohort very frustrating, since a student well up to Oxbridge and with buckets of potential may not be in the top band, simply because all students at these school are very able by definition.

On the 'high 8' thing, I really don't see where on a UCAS form the marks for individual GCSEs can be entered and I wouldn't expect a school to use precious space in their reference to deconstruct the marks - with the exception of a very high 8 in the subject a student is applying for perhaps.

If a pupil is top of the year group for their subject, this doesn't really provide enough information to compare between applicants from different schools. How many pupils are taking the subject that year (15 or 150?). Is the average A-level grade for that school A or C?

Yes the "where are you in relation to your classmates" criterion does seem flawed, for precisely that reason.
I suppose though that they may see it as a very rough way of allowing for different educational backgrounds - similar to the idea that 9 As from a 'requires improvement' school may (generally speaking) may be a greater achievement than 9 As from an outstanding one. But I don't think it's the same test as that, as it's measuring ability relative to a very small cohort, rather than relative ability generally (iyswim).

Hi everyone! Nice to 'meet' you all. I'm a little overwhelmed already by how much you all seem to know about the process and hope to learn lots from you as this year (and next) move on. I'm sure we will all be able to offer lots of support to each other.

For my DS and I, it's the blind leading the blind as neither of us know anything about it, but the Cambridge website does seem to offer lots of information and he has had the chance to do a subject masterclass and an open day which included sample lectures and interview practice, all of which he enjoyed. He has already picked some other universities to apply to and seems to be quite happy at the idea of studying at any of them so luckily he's not putting too much pressure on himself.

Everything I've ever read says that if they genuinely love their subject they stand a reasonable chance - and I can confirm that he genuinely loves his subject. Sadly I literally struggle with any maths beyond times tables so it's a language I'm unable to speak with him!!

Poking my head in here - I read Classics at Oxford 15 years ago, so am excited for all the Classics applicants. I'm very much enjoying the warm supportive tones that are running through this thread already. I can't speak intelligently about the current course at Oxford, but happy to answer more general questions about studying/living at Oxford (Classics in particular).

GinWorksForMe, good luck to your son (and you!) through the process. My impression from past threads is that Maths at Cambridge is to be preferred over Oxford, and I'm hopeful posters with experience will be able to weigh in on the STEP exams that Cambridge Maths applicants have to undergo - they sound quite tough!

goodbyestranger, Classics woo hoo! I think I may have asked before, but cannot recall - is it Latin or Greek that she would start with? More importantly, DD4 is going to apply to Univ I take it?

Hello Hingle :): Latin. I know the idea is that Classics is a doddle to get in for esp if you're going for the ab initio course but my sense is that the competition is going to be stiff, in terms of quality even if not so much on quantity as most other courses, so we'll see. No idea about college yet but Univ ticks the box of never having been plagued by a sibling! (and very pretty and central).

Haha I like the tutor's sales pitch on the Univ web page for Classics also his tutee has reviewed the book! I think I'd like this guy - no shame :)

'You may also like to read Classical Literature: A Very Short Introduction, written by one of Univ’s tutors, Dr William Allan – it is available from, amongst others, amazon.co.uk and Blackwells. Read our review here.'

(the link, which hasn't carried forward is, to Delia-the-tutee's glowing review).

A bit clumsy with my comma there.

Bill Allan is ace, with a lovely Scottish accent. His focus is Greek literature (especially Euripides) but I assume he would teach all the literature options, Greek and Latin. He's also pretty tidy at football.

You're right that the ab initio course is it's own microcosm of hard core - applicants with no formal background in the language reckoning it's the subject for them does produce a fairly rarified group of high achieving types. High quality, low quantity, as you say.

That book looks good, I may have to grab it!

Ok, being a Scot puts him firmly in favour on a second count.

I'm placing marking in case I can help with maths at Cambridge at all as dd is in her first year there, having come from a comprehensive background. I can't call myself an expert, but I might be able to answer some questions. We do have a real mn expert on this @Pallando who can give advice about STEP.

Oooh thanks OhYouBadBadKitten. Can I call you OYBBK or Kitten for short?? Will be great to hear from someone currently at Cambridge doing maths. My son is also from state school and totally understands that applying is a long shot whatever your background! One thing I'd be very interested to know is how much 'extra' maths your daughter was doing in sixth form? I mean stuff outside of the Maths/Further Maths A level course...if you're happy to share.

@Gin, I share your blind leading the blind feeling ! DH ( Cambridge , a thousand years ago) and I both medics, can game a negatively marked MCQ like you wouldn't believe but essay-based subjects are totally alien territory.

DD is at an Indie, gets a dwindling single figure amount of offers each year,one hand would cover it generously recently, mainly for maths and sciences and no-one in her subject since at least 2012 and probably even before that so... all advice for HAT etc most welcome . Guess most of our DC have exams coming up this term which will determine their predicted grades for UCAS?

hobbema

I remember the negative marking. It certainly trained us out of using guesswork in MCQ answers. The only other place I've seen it used is in UKMT Maths challenges.

Most of our mnemonics were actually quite rude/vulgar, and when we were asked to list causes etc. I would try to write them in a different order because I was embarrassed that the examiner might spot the mnemonic.

Hi Gin! I was giving the STEP talks last Saturday at the open day .

There are two university open days at the start of July (a Thurs and Fri), where you can visit colleges as well - there should be information on the websites somewhere. The maths department is open again these days. Alternatively, you can just rock up at colleges, say you are a prospective student and most of the time they will let you in for a look around! Best to avoid from now until the middle of June (exam season).

Cambridge has a free! STEP support course at maths.org/step, which i would encourage anyone thinking of doing maths at university to start working through - the first 25 "foundation" modules are probably useful to all maths applicants (the STEP 2 and STEP 3 modules perhaps more for the Cambridge maths applicants, but might still be interesting to some!). You don't have to give any details or register to use the resources (apart from the forum), you can just download and go for it!

For details of all the various Oxford and Cambridge tests (Including MAT/PAT/ENGAA etc etc) see www.admissionstesting.org/.

Cambridge now have their own entrance exams and this is the main factor in their decision. They introduced this as a replacement for the AS grades.

Which ever you like Gin . I'm happy to share, but I try and be respectful of dds privacy so if things get specific, I'll decline or go to pm.

dd did various UKMT competitions as an extra from early in secondary onwards but through her time sixth form as her access to interesting maths increased she focused less on them and more on specific areas that interested her.

In the summer between sixth form years she did a research placement through nuffield. It was brilliant. Her EPQ has also been invaluable in developing an area of interest.

You don't have to do those things though, anything that he does naturally for the love of maths is good. Reading books, tutoring, going to interesting lectures (are you in travelling distance of London.) watching TED talks or just exploring what he enjoys. The main thing he needs is to love maths to the point of being happy to do hours of it each day and be really good at it. Rather than trying to do stuff to get into Cambridge he should do the maths he loves simply for the enjoyment.

The personal statement they write is surprisingly short in space. Cambridge over offer and then select by STEP.

As Pallando implies STEP isn't just a means to an end, it's an excellent introduction to university maths and starting the foundation at this point or in the summer is a really good idea.

I'm happy to talk colleges by pm, though I obviously have very limited insight.

There's quite a bit of info on colleges available.

Factors they may want to consider include:

Location - near department/ main library/ west Cambridge / Aldi / boathouse etc etc as apt. Do they mind tourists ?

Accommodation - some of the older colleges might be a bit quirky , some may have college owned or sublet houses for some of the time rather than being in the actual college. Availability of 39 week contracts/ storage for stuff in the vacs may be relevant. Type of room ballot - apparently some use exam results for priority!

Food - some colleges have more flexibility than others; cooking facilities are variable from almost non-existent to quite good (this year in a house rather than college DD has enjoyed a proper kitchen and freezer!)

Subject mix eg Churchill has a lot of STEM students (and is male-heavy) ... they may like that or wish to avoid.

I'm sure there's other factors... but with all that said, best they don't get too attached to the idea of one particular college in case they're pooled. DD had said the only colleges she absolutely didn't want to go to were the women's ones - sure enough she was pooled to Murray Edwards and you've never seen such a fast 180 degree turn and enumeration of the advantages of 'hill college' vs more central.

Hello everyone. May I join you. DD1 will be at the Cambridge Maths open day tomorrow with a good friend who is also considering applying. They have been jockeying for position as the best mathematician in their year since the age of seven, so hopefully this will not turn ugly! She has also been to the Further Maths, What Next day at Oxford and is still swooning slightly over the lecturer who had fun with triangles and fluid dynamics.

Tomorrow I am taking my elderly father for a trip down memory lane, because he and mum met and married in Cambridge and he wants to go and buy some chelsea buns at Fitzbillies for old time's sake. So I won't be bumping into any of you at talks, but if you see a slightly frazzled middle aged woman walking very slowly with an old man and a Fitzbillies carrier bag, that will be me!

Well, I don't think benchmarking performance against a year group will work for my DC's year group as there are over 2000 in it and around 800 taking maths alone. My DC has had a look around Oxford & Cambridge and decided that Oxford ticks more boxes, possibly because they also have a UNIQ place for the summer. I'm hoping they will just decide to focus on a normal university instead.