Cambridge University.

[oneteen]

ttps://news.sky.com/story/cambridge-university-aims-to-ditch-most-unequal-title-with-admissions-overhaul-11656787

You didn’t seem clear, goodbye. Overseas students are not all international students.

Isn't the point that Oxbridge are keen for more applicants from socially disadvantaged backgrounds to apply so they publicise the steps they are taking to make the processes easier for such students so as to encourage those applications.

They have no such need to encourage increased applications from overseas students so they don't devote any PR to the subject.

It's hardly some massive conspiracy of silence. Why would the universities fund PR they don't need? If the press want to report on increased overseas student numbers they are perfectly at liberty to do so, but that's a wholly separate issue from the universities' own PR.

In the context of fees, I mean non EU, for obvious reasons.

They publicise what they are supposedly trying to do, not what they actually are doing.

Of course Oxbridge do overseas recruitment marketing - loads of it!

Any opinions on the part of this interview of Liz Truss relating to Oxbridge? (Which the Times chose to focus the headline on)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-not-offer-an-oxbridge-place-to-the-best-100-pupils-in-each-area-h06mcn8kk?shareToken=91213393c84c9959f0522aaa8c0415a4

But one of the major problems facing improving social inclusion is that many qualified applicants from disadvantaged backgrounds simply don't apply. Publicising that they are trying to improve access isn't the universities patting themselves on the back, it's in and of itself a method of improving access.

Publicising overseas recruitment efforts in the UK has no such positive benefits.

To what extent should universities, institutions that in theory should be devoted to generating better ideas and establishing truth, be engaging in the base marketing strategies of the high street?

One truth is that the moneyed middle classes don't possess a monopoly of intellectual potential.

Indeed - why not be upfront about the fact that Oxbridge is trying to recruit far more from outside the traditional private/grammar/leafy comp route, which includes less advsntaged UK residents and overseas students?

Generating the best ideas requires the best minds - whatever their social and economic background.

And you think that the best minds will be attracted by mass market marketing strategies?

To what extent should universities, institutions that in theory should be devoted to generating better ideas and establishing truth, be engaging in the base marketing strategies of the high street?

I reckon that's a fairly gross mischaracterisation of what they do.

Much of the publicity, inevitably, depends on what the media want to present, what they think their readership will be interested in - and that will almost inevitably produce biases.

And you think that the best minds will be attracted by mass market marketing strategies?

Mass marketing strategies should attract a broad spectrum from which they can then select the best.

And you think that the best minds will be attracted by mass market marketing strategies?

Yes I do. Especially at 17 years old.

Eccles The universities are definitely expecting legal action. They are worried about 'Marlborough Man", the parent who has paid a fortune for their dc's education who thought that would guarantee an Oxbridge place. I expect that Malborough Man thinks litigation would force them to give his dc a place. The reason for this belief is the unprecedented requests for feedback and the increasing numbers of FOI requests.

Malborough Man is deluded in that case and unlikely to be equal to the combined legal minds at Oxford or Cambridge, whichever uni his expensively educated DC failed to secure an offer from..

Bowchica I very much doubt that anyone is actually worried.

So... worried at having to squander money on legal fees, rather than worried that some aggrieved parent will win?

Does anyone have a link for the 'Marlborough man' backstory? I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of sense thinking a public school education would guarantee a place at any university, let alone Oxbridge.

Getting feedback on your DCs performance is fine, especially if they're considering reapplying. Curious as to what the FOIs were asking for, that isn't publicly available?

Marlborough Man versus McKinsey Mum: education strategies. Discuss.

So called Marlborough Man is discussed here.

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/if-oxford-shrugs-alan-rusbridger-admissions-lmh

Parents must indeed be very deluded if they think a private school education is a guarantee of an Oxbridge place, when even at Westminster, which seems to be the school with the highest percentage of leavers going to Oxbridge, 'only' 50% of the year group go there - obviously not all of the students apply, but those that do don't have an 100% hit rate. So it would require only the most basic research and deduction to work out that going to a private school isn't a guarantee of any particular university.

I find this media and political focus on Oxford and Cambridge so harmful in so many ways. There are many other highly academic universities with better courses for many students. Why do we never see anything about widening access or international student numbers at LSE or Imperial for example? It just perpetuates a 'class driven' narrative - as if in the public mind only these two universities are worth singling out.

The issue is discussed here too. This is DM article though.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6815963/Parents-using-Freedom-Information-requests-answers-Oxford-Cambridge-rejections.html

Curious as to what the FOIs were asking for, that isn't publicly available?

Well, there's this one, for a start - my guess is that the university's response isn't exactly what the person making the request was actually gunning for, though.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/land_economy_applicants_for_2019

Applicants are perfectly entitled through their referee to ask for feedback already. The idea that parents are requesting feedback is a pretty grim one. www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/decisions/feedback

Thanks for the Prospect article, Bowchicawowow. Interesting reading, not just about Marlborough Man.

"I find this media and political focus on Oxford and Cambridge so harmful in so many ways. "

Agree sunset - as there are a limited number of places not everyone can go there (obvious I know!), so it really is worth focusing on the fact that there are many other fantastic universities as well! The probability for many (most) applicants is that they won't get in so it's really important not to get to the point where you think anywhere else will be a miserable second best. I hope most schools are pressing home that message!