A'Levels EPQ - Is it worth it?

[Shimy]

Those of you with dc who did or are doing an EPQ with their A'levels, would you say it was worth it in terms of offers they received in the end? I noticed quite a few universities on their websites saying they'll get a reduced offer by one grade if they get an A. It just made me wonder wether it was worth all that additional work. Dc1 has not done an EPQ but dc2 is the type that might rise to this kind of challenge. Of course there is benefit in just doing the work for the sense of achievement in itself but would like to hear peoples thoughts. Also what did your dc do their EPQ in?

DS had quite a few uni interviews and all of the interviewers were interested in discussing his EPQ Also can be good for a personal statement to show interest in your subject choice ( if it relates) He also got reduced offers.

Dd did an epq and got 5 unconditional offers. Not sure if the epq made a difference or not but she had to interview for her courses so it gave her something to talk about.

Who marks it? Isn't it in the school's interest to give everyone an A?!

Isn't it easier to do one in a STEM subject of a practical nature? And how do you tell if your seam is overmined? A pp mentions that the most popular subjects are racism/inequality etc but if the admissions of a university ends up with a pile of 50 EPQs on the same subject that is defeating the object of trying to stand out from the crowd with one.

My DD did an 'artefact' EPQ (designed and built a robot). She'd very much wanted to do the Systems &Control A level but there weren't enough wanting to do it in her year to run that course so she did the comp sci AS (this was just prior to reforms) and the EPQ as an alternative. This was in addition to 3 A levels and I don't think she found it too much work. She started the epq in yr 12 but ended up doing most of the practical work over the summer and submitting in year 13. It didn't really make any difference to uni grade requirements but was good for the PS, and simply developing practical skills prior to starting her MEng. Also note that it required some 'project planning' and report writing which is maybe useful.

IMO it's a good idea if the student is motivated and interested in the subject, but not with bothering as a box ticking exercise.

Who marks it? Isn't it in the school's interest to give everyone an A?!

External moderation, of course.

Isn't it easier to do one in a STEM subject of a practical nature?

I certainly don't think my DDs was an easy option - well, for her it might have been easier than an essay based one, but given that artefact EPQs are apparently relatively unusual I don't think they can be generally seen as a soft option. It was quite a lot of work (but she enjoyed it) and the presentation would have been pretty crap if she'd not managed to get the thing to actually work!

I think what Irma meant by her comment was that it might be easier to do an EPQ on a STEM subject because of it practical nature more applicable, rather than that the EPQ in itself would be easier. If that's any clearer.

Fo what its worth, I believe an EPQ would be equally applicable to both, in the same way a final dissertation/project is applicable at the end of a degree regardless of wether its STEM or not. One is the application of a concept and the other essay based or a mix even.

Thank you for clarifying, Shimy! That is exactly what I meant!

I had a look at the sixth form open day at the EPQ examples, and it did seem to me that the "practical" ones seemed to grasp the concept better, in a way. It is "easier" (I know that's not the right word!) to explain one's difficulties and how they were overcome with a manual project or study rather than with a long written dissertation-type piece. The latter were all much of a muchness, eg Brontes v Austen feminism type of thing. You'd have thought the EPQ person would have screamed There Is Nothing More To Be Said About Jane Austen!!! (I'm sure there is but probably not by sixth formers.)

Shimy the quality of the writing (or artefact/ performance etc) is only a modest part of the overall mark; a lot of the marks are associated with ticking off the steps taken in completing the project. When I said tedious, I meant that my own DC found that part tedious but it wasn't onerous and certainly didn't touch their A level work or create additional pressure. I think they simply found it a bit of a bore.

The results come out on A level results day. The top mark is an A*, not an A.

At DS's school they do their EPQ during year 12 and the unmoderated score is given to them in September of yr 13 with the actual results coming out in January. There are apparently 2 submission dates per academic year so it will depend which date the school/6th form submits on as to when they get actual results. some submit in year 12 and some in year 13.

DS is hoping to apply to Oxford to read history so is doing his on a history based subject that does not form part of his A level studies. Although Oxbridge does not necessarily require an EPQ sometimes the subject matter of the EPQ will be discussed at interview.

At DS's school the EPQ must be a formal written dissertation style report followed by a presentation of their report whereas at a local 6th Form they can do films, cook books etc. and it is presnted by holding an EPQ Fayre where they have a stall and can explain it to people who are interested on a more informal basis.

As regards "Admin": the student is marked on how they approach the process as well as the actual report (which I think only accounts for 25% of the marks I think). So they will get marks for planning, explaining what decisions they made along the way, how they found their sources and how they decide whether a source is credible or reliable, whether they did any independent research or surveys, what skills they learned along the way (eg. referencing, powerpoint, use of footnotes) etc and so on. If you look at the syllabus for the board they are taking it gives a breakdown of what marks they get for each area.

They are marked and then moderated internally and then also moderated by the exam board. The reason why many people seem to get A*-B for their EPQ is that they have the choice to submit it or not after it has been marked and sometimes if it is a lower grade a student would rather not submit it and then it will not appear on their UCAS form.

Most grade offers that take EPQ into account are looking for at least an A.

DS did an HPQ alongside his GCSEs (which is the gcse equivalent) and found it useful and interesting as they can literally do it on whatever they want although the advice at his school (I emphasise at HIS school as I know it does not need to be the case) is to link it to the subject you would like to do your degree in to evidence your interest in that subject, assuming they already know what degree they want to do, which I appreciate isn't always/usually the case in year 12!

Having been through HPQ and now an EPQ feel free to ask questions.

OkBobble out of the three of my DC to read History at Oxford none of them was asked about their EPQ at interview and one of their school peers went to interview clutching her EPQ in the hope that they'd like to see it and the tutors said a very firm no (on the basis that they liked to keep the questions on a level playing field). So I definitely wouldn't do an EPQ on the basis that it might be useful for a History interview at Oxford because it most likely won't be.

All six DC got an A* for their EPQ so the fact that they found it boring wasn't because they found it too much of a challenge, just that the admin was.... boring :) They also had to do a presentation thingy. I think they'd all say don't bother tbh.

Lots of schools love the EPQ esp cash strapped state schools because it requires incredibly little teacher input, which is great for finances. I think that's a major reason for why the EPQ gets such a puff.

Well, as I said above, dd has had two offers reduced on the basis of her epq AND she enjoyed doing it! Perhaps interviewers only ask about it in interview if it is particularly unusual or insightful? I know her bf was asked about his in his (successful) Oxford interview.

Yes Oxford sometimes cover EPQs at interview, but not always. I suspect it's more likely to come up if it's directly relevant to the course.

Both of mine have/ are doing it. Invaluable skills, I think, for university study. Elder DD found it clarified her choice of degree course, which she's now enjoying. Younger chose an interesting topic which provided a useful discussion point in her Cambridge interview . Definitely allows them to show a broader understanding and interest in their subject area.

Neither had the EPQ cited in their admissions conditions.

If it's on offer, I'd say go for it. Both finished / will have finished it well before A Level exams start.

I am amazed that anyone who is going to enjoy University finds doing the EPQ boring. They must have picked the wrong format or the wrong subject or something.

Remember that unis/HE now take more than 50% of each age cohort. There are a lot of people who just turn up to be sequentially led through a business degree (or whatever). Not all UGs have intellectual curiosity more's the pity

Another vote for EPQ. Dd learnt how to do a proper university style essay with a bibliography and rate the integrity of each reference used. She is doing a combined subject and linked both subjects to her EPQ and got two reduced offers because of it. It also really helped with coursework for two of her A Levels. And the amount of background reading has helped in all 3.

Neither really Bert it's just all the explanation of the process they found dull. They did go onto enjoy uni too and got very good degrees as in firsts etc so not too thick or anything either. The EPQ is very overrated.

Goodbye - I really like the fact that you get more marks for the process than for the output, i think that's a very good lesson at that age. So thanks for explaining that.

Bobble - Thanks for a very comprehensive explanation of the whole EPQ process. It all comes together and makes sense now, why everyone seems to get an A etc and why it seems to be the standard requirement. I didn't know you could pull back and not submit if you wanted to on a lower mark, that makes perfect sense.

Based on everything posters have said, I think the EPQ definitely has a lot to offer beyond merely getting a reduced offer. Infact the skills learnt will span any subject or goal or mini project for that age group. But I wouldn't advise someone struggling academically to take one on. If they are the type of person who is flying in their 3 main subjects and have an area they are passionate about, & conscientious enough to be able to take on a mini project alongside, i'd say go for it.

I think the main problem with the EPQ is that which happens to any add ons by certain schools to make them 'stand out', eg DofE, Music grades etc
The fact is, the type of universities that will be impressed by these additional endeavours (usually very selective unis) then get flooded with it. The result is all their applicants then start to look like one homogenous group. The result? they start to lose interest.

I'm thinking DS2 (only in yr10) might just be the right candidate for an EPQ as he already has 2 mini projects relating to what he'd like to do for a career going at the moment. He is absolutely passionate about them and so maybe he might be able to turn his hand to it more through an EPQ. He is the sort that's always found with a little note book, making some kind of business plan, scribbling in interesting observations, making annotations etc just for fun. He's not terrifically academic, just average infact, but always has something he is currently and passionate ly investigating and gets much pleasure out of it.

You'd struggle at Oxford without intellectual curiosity Cole, which my DC obviously didn't.

Luckily she’s not applying for History at Oxford otherwise it would have all been a waste of time....😉

Shimy another poster seemed to think marks for the process are less than I thought, so I'm now not quite sure of the apportionment. Either way, I think the time spent on the EPQ might be better spent reading even more broadly around their subject than a student might anyway do, if they're aiming for a top uni - esp one which interviews.

You'd struggle at Oxford without intellectual curiosity Cole,

I know (and noticeably Oxford don't offer those "training" type degrees).

@BertrandRussell said "anyone who would enjoy university" and that's what I was replying to because I thought it was rather sweeping and because this is a discussion forum.

I was the EPQ co-ordinator at my school and now mentor students through it.

Almost all of ours get A/A* but that is a lot to do with the fact we select students who have achieved extremely well at GCSE.

One of my ex-mentees was very clever with his use of his EPQ for an Oxbridge application as he chose a college which had no word limit on the submission of work. He submitted his EPQ, it was discussed at interview and he is now at Cambridge studying Economics.

DD is just about to start hers. She is having the taught sessions at present and et with her 1:1 tutor twice briefly.

DD's not doing it for reduced offers, etc. though in many of the course details it may well count towards the 'points' it seems.

DD is linking hers to the degree and career she wants to pursue with a particular interest area too, and she is linking it to her ongoing work experience. So, she hopes it will benefit in that way and be a talking point if she has interviews, etc. It's something she is interested in, she seems to have the time even with WE and she is usually pretty good with essay writing/project work too. Helps that she is super organised in general.