Medicine 2019 - Part 2

[Monkey2001]

Oops, looks like none of noticed the old thread was full!

@HostessTrolley @Hoodiemum @4catsham @mamamedic @medicmom @mimiasovitch @Nightowlpossibly @ProfessorLayton1 @Tinkobell @Weaverspin @Itsthekissing @Sluj @Mumneedswine @Movingmountains

Apologies to any regulars I have missed

Agreed on the whole NeedMoreSleep but if there's an obvious weak link anywhere in an otherwise strong application and the outcome hasn't been what was hoped for, then logic would suggest you address the weak link. Chemistry is mandatory but my understanding is that Biology is also, de facto.

Thanks both.

Interesting thought to say he is self-studying Biology A level, but they might then decide they want it!

It is difficult to be sure of cause and effect with Biology A level at Oxford. Most students who know they want to do Medicine will do Biology. A lot would strongly rather not do physics! DS only gave it up because the medical schools he liked best did not mind whether he did Biology or Physics and as he likes Physics, is good at it and it is better taught at his school than Biology. Obviously we did not expect to be where we are now, but I am still not sure that he would have made a different decision although he might have tried to get permission to do all 4.

It may well be that it is the fact that they are people who are committed to medicine rather than the fact that they did Biology which gives them an edge over those who took other subjects because they had not decided what they wanted to do. DS has wanted to do medicine since Y9.

Future applicants - one thing which is not discussed much on threads about choosing med schools is how they decide to make offers after interviews, it is all focussed on where you can secure an interview. In hindsight, if you think your academics might be stronger than your interview skills, obviously Edinburgh is top of the list if your academics are strong enough, but also Aberdeen base offers on 50/50 academics/interview, UEA is 50/50 UKCAT/interview. I am working my way through Admissions stuff to see where else strong academics will compensate for poor interview skills.

I think we have had enough of my Little Monkey for now, so can we move on to some more happy stories please!!

Just found this thread again having spent time wondering why no one was posting! So sad to hear about Monkey Junior - I agree I think it is harder for 17/18 year old lads to perform quite as well in interview as some of the other candidates. My 17 year old DS applied to Sheffield and was given all the interview questions in advance which provided an invaluable opportunity for him to have a good think about what the question was about and come up with a solid answer. It does seem like there are still lots of doors open to Monkey Junior between now and Sep.
Just to add another option to the table.... there is a selection of courses at Newcastle (biomed sci etc) that consider students for transfer to medicine at the end of first year dependent on exam results (and then an interview I think). Might be worth a look if he is reluctant to think about a year out - could play to his very good academic strengths.

Before moving on Monkey...
Need more sleep - Dd’s weakest subject was chemistry but of course it was impossible to drop as most places required it. She did drop a grade in it (just - by less than half a percent) but Leeds (her insurance) still took her.

I am not sure about how important it is to take Biology - there were definitely a few in dd’s year who had not done it. She personally would think it odd not to do it if you wanted to study medicine.

Regarding maximising chances next year, she knows for sure that this year Leeds did not look at personal statements at all when shortlisting for interviews. It was all done on the basis of predicted grades & probably more importantly, BMAT results.

Well done Kissing on Manchester....warm congratulations! Monkey I hope your boy is maintaining his spirit....he has great A levels and will have so many options. It is interesting to hear that it is actually very normal for many medicine undergrads to have a reapplication year and pleasing that the system on the whole rewards that with better chances second time round. I think the biology debate is a tough one.....I have a friend whose DD has decided at the 11th hour to go for veterinary without Biology A2; Cambridge & Notts are fine with it in principle which did surprise me. DD did get her 4th offer for UEA today which she's very keen on...decision time ahead now with some revisits.

Argh sorry to read your news Monkey :-( - and well done to those who have had happier emails x

On the subject of Sheffield, how did others actually find the experience of having the questions upfront? I’m asking because my Dd said she felt that it made it more stressful rather than less, she was unsure of the level of preparation required and felt that the expectations were higher that she should know exactly what to say without sounding rehearsed. She said because she knew what was coming she was kinda listening to what was going on around her more too, and comparing her answers with others which wasn’t helpful. I guess I’m wondering if more unis might go down this route, and whether or not that would be a good thing.

Is anyone else at the Sheffield offer holder day next weekend?

Still waiting to hear from Nottingham and KCL, hope fading as the weeks go by but she’s feeling frustrated by the wait rather than stressed about the outcome at the moment. Mocks happening at the moment which seem to be a mixed bag, prom dress arriving next week hopefully, and holiday plans for when school and exams are done

Sorry for those who havent been successful or are still waiting to hear. My son now has offers from Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Still to hear from Dundee but he thought it went well so seems likely that he will get an offer from there too. He is favouring Aberdeen at the moment - mainly because he wants to move away from home. Is he mad? It seems to be the least well regarded but does that matter? Thanks for any opinions.

Hi Starry! Well done to your DS - he's doing well. I'm afraid I have no answer re. Aberdeen, but a question for you instead. I presume you are Scottish, with that selection of unis? My DD is English and considering St Andrew's. Loves the compactness of the place, the friendly med school, the old buildings, the beach, the fact that she could go to Edinburgh or mountains sometimes at the weekend, but is worried about the people. She's not from a private school, and won't have the sort of budget that the posh rich English there will have, even if she did want to hang out with them (which is unlikely). Do you think she would find a good mix of friends from a mix of backgrounds, including Scots? She's a bit wary of a 'them and us' environment. Just wondered if you had any insight into that, since St A is the one Scottish uni your DS didn't apply to...

Monkey: add St A's to your list of unis that consider the academic picture when making decisions after interview (although given that my DD got an offer with less than stellar GCSEs and predictions, I don't know how much weighting each aspect is given - they're a bit vague about it).

Congrats Starry! We did not look at the Scottish ones before applying, but have been looking on line at Aberdeen as they weight academic 50% when making offers. The med school is quite a way from the campus - 45 minute walk according to somebody on TSR. Does that make the meds a bit remote from the rest of uni life? I am afraid it is a question rather than an opinion! Accommodation looks surprisingly affordable, my recollection was that as an oil and gas hub it was an expensive place to live, but that seems to be wrong.

Thanks for the tip hoodiemum

I have been following you all for a while as DD1 has her heart set on medicine for a decade (Yr 12). My heart is mush looking at the pressure your DCs are under. How do you cope with the highs and lows of this process? - it is like a rollercoaster that seems to be determined to throw some of our DCs out unexpectedly on the way around. DD had a disappointment last week when she didn't get something she applied for at school and when the email came through she was crushed and we are awaiting the outcome of another school application today and she has felt nauseous all day(and I have also felt unsettled waiting). Looking at the whole process between now and this time next year is terrifying - I am dreading it. Is there anyone on here who just wishes their DC would take an easier route? Anyone who feels it really isn't worth it all? Maybe I will look back on this in a years time and feel differently but at the moment it all looks like everest - UCAT, BMAT, PS, interviews, selecting colleges, working experience, A*/A A levels, trying to get gold DofE and all that involves, trying to keep up with medical developments, read relevant books etc. etc. Sorry to pour it all out here but IRL no-one understands how hard it is and when I try to explain they just say it will be fine as she is bright Not meaning to hijack the thread but just having a month day of worry.

Hi Juggling. Firstly, don't panic !! It's a tough road you're about to embark on, and the UCAT was devised by a very sadistic mind. BMAT not much better (but at least the questions make sense !). Look at selection procedures for interview and make sure you fulfil them, as they vary hugely. You don't need Gold DofE and strangely quite a few Unis don't ever read the PS. And don't need much extra reading as you can find out a lot looking on line before interviews. Yes it's a rollercoaster year. But oh it's so worth it when you drop them off in October as a scared kid and they then call you 6 months later telling you about the heart exam they did today, and how dissecting the shoulder is fascinating. Deep breaths and my username is for a reason !!

I think I tried to post a message on the old thread, some of the mums will recognise me from 2018 thread. But just popping in to say first to disappointed mums, I do know of DCs who got not offers post interviews and then got in on clearing because of great A level grades - Southampton had places a year or so ago - so do find out about clearing.

My DD has opposite, four interviews, attended 3, 3 offers and didn't make the grade. Long story that I put 75% on school, 10% on DD for not quite getting how much work was needed to compensate for issues with teaching and 5% me for realising there were issues but not insisting on extra work or revision courses! I had the phone numbers ready.

I would also say an earlier poster mentioned people being negative about the choice of medicine, and I had the same, in fact DDs teacher who a little medicine applicants club was really off-putting, reducing many to tears. She said it was a reality check. I admit to not be encouraging at first and to friends in the NHS looking at my with sympathy when I said DD was looking at medicine. DD's experience of a week in intensive care, commuting to a London Hospital and seeing things that I would have nightmares about didn't put her off and nor did all the negative comments including from a medical student (now an FY1 in Liverpool). It was the fact that nothing put her off that persuaded me, and by the end of the process I could see her ability and maturity and thought she had something to offer. She will be offering that to drug research now instead :).

Results day was horrid, but within an hour DD had accepted a place in clearing for Pharmacology and is enjoying it and regaining her lost confidence. She convinced herself she didn't know how to revise, but her first set of Pharma exams have gone very well she is in a group that includes others like her (hoping for medicine) and others with good science grades that didn't want to be doctors but involved in medicine in some other way. Whether at some stage she considers post grad. I don't know, whatever she chooses she has my support.

Her next interview is to work behind the Uni bar 2 nights a week :), I hope after MMI's nothing will surprise her?.

My advice, is with or without offers, from now it is all about revision, getting great grades will keep doors open and may open doors that you thought were shut.

Not getting them is tough, but there are options. DD's confidence was too low to consider resits. My advice was if you love the course great, if not you leave within the first term and you don't have the student debt and can then rethink. I know it is not a game to play, but I have seen a couple of friends DCs so unhappy in their chosen courses, coming home and reconsidering options was the best choice.

Best of luck all.

excuse typos, and last paragraph, I didn't mean leave medicine I meant if you go into clearing. Also some Unis offer top performing students on medicine related courses the chance to transfer across after the first year of their study, I know Exeter is one and possibly Leicester and St Georges.

Welcome, Juggling! Is it worth the stress? Too early for us to say at this stage, as we're in the thick of it, and I suppose in a way none of us will truly know until our DCs are at least 30. But just passed a HUGE hurdle today - last of the 11 major IB coursework things has been handed in! Dominos pizza celebration tonight!!!

Each hurdle - predicted grades, UKCAT, PS, etc. - feels like an important step forward, and if your DD is as excited about learning and practising medicine as mine is, there won't be any doubt that you keep going down that path, one step at a time. If it doesn't work out, well, at least she tried. Would never want her not to pursue the dream, even if it's a dream that I sometimes struggle to relate to!

I echo what MumsNeedWine said, they don't need to have done everything and read everything. I kept a few bookmarks of news webpages about medicine that I came across day to day for a few months, and she read them a day or two before interviews. We also did a bit of talking about medical ethics (based on an interview book) in the car to college for a few weeks. Our strategy was to not even think about UKCAT until start of summer hols, and just sacrifice ten days of the hols to intensive Medify practice. If that goes well, you may not even have to take BMAT.
Yes, it's hard work, but so far, at least, I think it's worth it.

Lots of good advice here, Juggling!

I am a hospital consultant and I would definitely say it is worth doing medicine as it is an interesting career - training is hard but in the end it is a very rewarding career. Doctors won't earn megabucks and if you are someone who chases money, you will not like it. Working in NHS is difficult but this could be said about many public sector jobs as well lawyers in the city ( was a thread recently, interesting insight for me to a different world)
It teaches what is important in life.. family, friends and people around you! I have seen so many young people with life limiting illness , death etc - makes you prioritise what is important in life!

Dd was undecided about her career choice and choose medicine at the last minute ( apparently we influenced her inadvertently ) - she does not have masses of voluntary work or DoE etc., As pp mentioned concentrate on academics and look at the entrance UKCAT/ BMAT during summer holidays. She needs to realise that almost all applicants to medicine are strong academically and some of the brilliant children don't get any offer first time around.
Out attitude was there are five choices ( she was not willing to consider biomedical sciences ) - 4 medical places and a gap year!

Oh.. it is never too early to read BBC health section , listen to news and discuss about any ethical issues. This could be anything and does not need to be related to medicine at all, it will make her look at things from various view points..
Good luck to your Dd..

Lots of kids get into medical school without BMAT and DoE.

Gosh mumsnet is great - thank you all so very much for your replies. I love her so much and she is such a kind caring person and so hard working that I hate to see her disappointed but you are all right - for her it is medicine or bust and if she busts I'll sweep up the pieces and superglue her back together again. She is aiming for UCAT unis so hopefully can avoid the BMAT but if the former doesn't go well might have to take the latter.
On a positive note - she did get the other position she has applied for at school and had gone to buy a bike(not related in any way!).
Great advice and I'll keep lurking around, asking questions and willing your DCs on as they navigate this process.
Pharmacology is one I don't think she had considered - I'll float it at some point over the weekend.
If she had a fifth choice that I know she would be happy with, I'd relax a bit more but I suppose her dedication may be her strength.
Feeling a bit more cheerful for your support so thank you all.

Imperfectsusan I know they do. She isn't sporty but loves a good hike so she thought this might be something useful from that point of view and if she doesn't need to do the BMAT she certainly won't - we just don't want to close the door on anything until after UCAT.

I am not in a good position to advise on what is good interview preparation(!), but DS did secure 4 interviews, but only one of them which looked at the PS was Cambridge.

In terms of securing interviews, the first thing is to get a good UKCAT score. I think it might have been nice to ramp up a bit more gently, so I would say it might be worth subscribing to Medify for a month, but starting with a little now and then, finishing with a more intense week. We got the 1,250 questions book which DS did before Medify, but I would not bother with that again, just go straight for Medify.

In terms of reading, lots of the good ones are very interesting, so not a trial to read - Henry Marsh, Do No Harm; I'm a Junior Doctor, Get me out of Here. Heavier ones DS read were Being Mortal and The Man Who Thought his Wife was a Hat.

She has the Henry Marsh ( the St. Georges link as that is her no. 1 choice) and is reading When Breathe Becomes Air at the moment - in between Game of Thrones!
Medify - I'll check that out - some of those situational judgement ones I found hard on a practice paper she found but I suppose it's part practice as well as instinct.
Lovely to have so much advice - thank you.

The Man Who Thought his Wife was a Hat.

Do not mention The Man Who Mistook his Wife for a Hat in a personal statement. It drives admissions tutors insane.

@hoodiemum I'm not sure that I can be much help! Yes we are Scottish but I don't really know much about St Andrews other than most English and private school students apply there. I feel sure there must be lots of comprehensive scottish students as well though and that people will be friendly enough but probably a more select group than some other Uni
's. My son didnt fancy it for being too small and another of his friends didnt because of the select group. It is definitely a thing but maybe not too bad? Sorry I cant be more helpful.

Hah! Maybe that is why he got 4 rejections - it is a curse!!!! (Not really, don't think he mentioned it!)

Thanks, Starry. Like with you, I sometimes wonder if the main aim is to get as far away from home as possible! At least we talked her down from Queen's Belfast...