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Higher education

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Advice for a wannabe city lawyer?

111 replies

goldberg · 18/02/2019 17:58

Hello. New here and have a question regarding becoming a lawyer. I read the Oxbridge application thread with interest so think here is a good place to ask.
Dd is in her first year at Oxford studying history and english.
She has some experience at some chambers and a law firm in london, as well as at home in Bristol.

She obviously has good GCSEs and decent A levels to get into Oxford. I’ve read that most vacation schemes are for second years onwards non-law.

There are about half a dozen schemes that are open to first year non law, but these aren’t vacation schemes. They’re 2 days-1 week. She has applied to them, and put effort into the application and had someone read them who does law at LSE. She has always gotten through the first round to be asked to take a test, she has passed three of these tests.

One then decided they weren’t taking things further and rejected her, but her score was above pass mark but not that high. Probably her paper application wasn’t good.

Another she took the test for and hasn’t heard anything back in 2 weeks whilst others got interviews. So she is taking that one as no.

It’s a similar story for another, and the others are yet to be reviewed by the law firms.

Is there any way she can improve her chances? She has used the career service and done lots and lots of practice tests, but they don’t really seem to improve her score that much.

She is part of law society too, and has been and even given a speech at an event so has lots of contacts on linkedin etc.

Does anyone have any advice how she can progress? She understands that she is just in first year, but it’s already very disheartening for her, as I am sure it is for others too.

OP posts:
floribunda18 · 27/02/2019 14:55

I’ve seen plenty of lawyers be quietly managed out

No women over 35 in a lot of city firms.

I really hope millenials won't stand for their shit, I think they are a lot better at refusing to work stupid hours than Gen X.

minipie · 27/02/2019 15:08

The best banking jobs I suspect are with those who are very very good at maths

At least half of the bankers I know took arts degrees (eg history). Quants and other specialised analysts need excellent maths but for M&A, equity or bond sales, trading etc you just need to be reasonably numerate. Maths A level at a good grade is likely to be enough.

FreeButtonBee · 27/02/2019 15:31

I've never regretted becoming a city lawyer although it was very very tough at times and I am glad I made the jump to in house at a low-ish PQE level (4 years PQE).

I'm now living the impossible dream of part time extremely interesting transactional work (I'm in a niche area at a bank). it's very stressful at times and the pay is not stellar (compared to the bankers) but still enough to afford a house in SW London. DH and I have both progressed more slowly than perhaps we might have done (eg he probably could have gone into partnership at a small US firm at some point over the past 3 years but that would have wiped out my ability to work the way that I do).

But there is so much more to law than law firms. I've friend who've worked at amazon, google, facebook, spotify, deliveroo, banks, funds and more as lawyers from a wide range of private practice back grounds, even some offered jobs as counsel at football clubs! Some of these have been great jobs and some less so but they are all interesting and being in house means you are so much closer to the decision making.

So I think it pays to consider the end game and choose your specialism carefully.

FreeButtonBee · 27/02/2019 15:41

agree that not all bankers need to be super maths brain but I must admit that most that I come across have done some sort of finance related degree or post grad. although there are quite a few lawyers turned structurers in my place who have done exceptionally well for themselves but that seems to be a local bias for weird reasons here and not something that I think is reflected in all banks!

BasiliskStare · 27/02/2019 16:05

I stand corrected !

PCohle · 27/02/2019 16:27

I think it's a really interesting point to raise Basilisk because I think a lot of arts (or indeed law) graduates share your view and don't consider going into finance because of it.

It wasn't until I was a practicing lawyer and working closely with investment banks/PE funds that I realised it was an option I could have pursued (and have been better paid for).

BasiliskStare · 27/02/2019 16:36

@PCohle - I say it because a good friend of mind and a friend of my brother's did very very well in banking jobs but they were very good at maths ( one designed financial products ( did PhD in which included financial modelling & if I remember rightly , game theory ) , the other was more of a sales type person ( i.e. selling shares / futures etc in real time - can't remember the proper name of the job. )

But as I say - I am happy to be wrong.

For the avoidance of doubt - I never got beyond Maths O Level so - there you go - what do I know Grin @PCohle.

PCohle · 27/02/2019 17:14

Oh I don't think you're wrong at all.

I'm sure there are any number of finance jobs for which you need to be an incredibly gifted mathematician.

It's just that I also think there a huge number of finance jobs (that are incredibly well remunerated) that don't require anything more than the same level of "commercial awareness" that is now expected of trainees and for which an Oxbridge humanities graduate would be well placed to apply.

Finance is a very broad field!

BasiliskStare · 27/02/2019 22:54

@PCohle Grin I am sure you are right. Aha - Oxford humanities degree - well wouldn't a well paid job in banking go down well. Ah - Ds has chosen another path. But I hope he does well & ( whispering ) he did not choose a maths based job ( whether that be mental arithmetic in short order or more complex things )

I hope you did not take my post amiss . Just the highest earning people in city / finance I know were good at maths - But Ds isn't - I am sure he will get on well - we wait to see - still applying for jobs - so ha ha - still a work in progress for him. I suspect he will get Plan B if not Plan A. & We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

PCohle · 27/02/2019 23:04

Sorry, I really don't want to come across like I'm disagreeing with you!

The Oxbridge humanities thing wasn't meant to be smug or a dig at anyone, it's just that the OP said her DD was studying History and English at Oxford.

I hope your DS will be very successful in his chosen field. As you may have gleaned from my posts I certainly wasn't happy as a MC lawyer so I'm far from an advocate of city jobs.

zsazsajuju · 27/02/2019 23:30

@minpie totally agree re seeing plenty of women managed out. I had a get together with some of my female friends recently and it had happened to more than half of us (all city lawyers or former city lawyers).

@xenia the crazy hours are a huge barrier to women’s advancement. You may see that as an advantage for your sons but many men hate the high pressure and long hours too. Women are still vastly underrepresented at a senior level in law despite being more than half of trainees. It’s due to the crushing hours culture and the crunch time for advancement (ie partnership) coming just as professional women want to have kids. Also I think I know who you are from the other forum too and you’re not typical- quite the opposite as someone pointed out.

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