Advice for a wannabe city lawyer?

[goldberg]

Hello. New here and have a question regarding becoming a lawyer. I read the Oxbridge application thread with interest so think here is a good place to ask.
Dd is in her first year at Oxford studying history and english.
She has some experience at some chambers and a law firm in london, as well as at home in Bristol.

She obviously has good GCSEs and decent A levels to get into Oxford. I’ve read that most vacation schemes are for second years onwards non-law.

There are about half a dozen schemes that are open to first year non law, but these aren’t vacation schemes. They’re 2 days-1 week. She has applied to them, and put effort into the application and had someone read them who does law at LSE. She has always gotten through the first round to be asked to take a test, she has passed three of these tests.

One then decided they weren’t taking things further and rejected her, but her score was above pass mark but not that high. Probably her paper application wasn’t good.

Another she took the test for and hasn’t heard anything back in 2 weeks whilst others got interviews. So she is taking that one as no.

It’s a similar story for another, and the others are yet to be reviewed by the law firms.

Is there any way she can improve her chances? She has used the career service and done lots and lots of practice tests, but they don’t really seem to improve her score that much.

She is part of law society too, and has been and even given a speech at an event so has lots of contacts on linkedin etc.

Does anyone have any advice how she can progress? She understands that she is just in first year, but it’s already very disheartening for her, as I am sure it is for others too.

DonaldTwain I really doubt that the senior people in the MC firms would be moved by a few MNers saying they hated their time in those firms.

@goodbyestranger, I disregard comments from people on this forum who say “don’t do it”. The law may not suit some people, but most find it a very rewarding career.

I was in a MC firm a long, long time ago when far fewer trainees were women - that's the main difference between then and now, looking at the numbers of women on the welcome list (that I still have for some reason!) and the numbers at my DCs' two MC firms. I think there are better ways to deal with sexism than to get agitated and hyper about it.

(In 1983 by the way we were 50/50 male and female trainees in the London firm I trained in - pity that did not translate to 50% top of equity partners now female however)

Mine was a MC firm Xenia just a couple of years later and was one third female. You haven't said if yours was MC but it's a significant difference, one third t(or slightly less) to a half. There wasn't a single female equity partner in the firm at the time.

Incidentally the only point about MC is that I'm wondering if they lagged behind other firms in terms of female recruitment.

My advice to someone in your daughter’s position is not to jump too quickly towards either the solicitor arm or the bar, or - more importantly - towards any particular area of law. And not to worry about next steps for a while at least.

Law’s fascinating and covers all aspects of life. Corporate law is quickly lucrative but, IMO, very dull: most lawyers in the magic circle practise little any

oops...

analytical law. There’s lots of boilerplate, proofing and client servicing.

Your daughter should learn more about legal practice in detail and find out about crime, chancery, family, consumer, regulatory, public law, and so on. There are plenty of good books about legal careers.

Good luck to your daughter!

We were unusual in being 50/50 (It was then a West End firm and I went to a MC one as soon as I qualified. I can't remember that second firm's percentage of women trainess, although I think the reason I remembered the 50% female trainees in the first firm was that it was fairly unusual.

I certainly recommend people do law. It's a good career even if you later move to something else - I believe the man who set up Wetherspoons pubs was a lawyer first. It is a good background for a business career too.

Some might think he should have stayed as a lawyer!

Has she signed up to aspiring solicitors?

Thanks for all the information! I have been reading but I forgot my password for the forum. DD just called me depressed again that she was verbatim "Rejected" from another firm's first year scheme. She is getting very down about it, queue much whinging about giving up already.

She really can't understand what she's doing wrong so is thinking of going to the careers service for advice before next year's application. I suppose it is difficult as so far she has always been successful in pretty much everything she has done- reality check!

Yes, worth trying a careers service. At least she's interested. Mine including the 2 now London lawyers didn't do too much or even vacation schemes, other than one found a week's work experience when in the sixth form and only decided on law at the last minute near the end of their degrees and although they were at good universities with good marks they were not even at Oxbridge.

Also do tell her it's not a pure process like a maths problem where you do X and get Y. I had a pretty good CV (top of year, scholarships, prizes etc) and still had to have 25 interviews for a training contract before I got one even back in my day. Other people had one or two interviews and got an offer. There has always been elements of luck, whether the country is in a recession etc.

She does need to adjust to the realities of life I’m afraid, goldberg. She probably isn’t doing anything wrong. It’s just that places are very limited. She won’t know the criteria for selection and this year she doesn’t tick the boxes. They might be looking for people from under privileged post codes for example or under performing schools. For people who need more help maybe? That’s just a guess but Oxford might not tick this particular box this year.

I would say definitely give up for this year. Why worry about something that’s not important? If she gives up the idea of law altogether because of this she’s looking at the wrong career anyway! Nothing about the law is easy.

I would start thinking very seriously about what her applications should look like for next year and get something worthwhile in terms of a job or volunteering over the summer. Also concentrate on her degree and get the cv looking good.

Did you say what degree she is doing?

Your daughter sounds like me - I am now 30. Most of my friends are lawyers or ex lawyers - all of them hate it except my husband! With an oxford degree she will get a great job if that’s what she decides she wants to do but she should think long and hard as it is usually pretty miserable.

OP I'm not doubting that your DD thinks she likes the idea of law goldberg so this point is not about her. But at Oxford there's a massive lemming thing going on whereby vast numbers of undergrads think they'll go for City law purely because it's competitive, and this is a competitive group generally speaking. It's incredibly easy to get sucked in and head for the cliff and almost equally as easy to regret it later. I suspect the Careers people may be slightly wearied by yet another student knocking on their door saying they want to get in to that field but aren't having much success. Also, to the poster who said second year vac schemes are for law students only, they're not - they're open to all subjects because those students need to know if they have a Training Contract before they embark on the GDL.

goldberg

Yes, second year vac schemes are for non lawyers too and I have been suggesting back in September 18 to my twins if they had considered law to be applying then September - Nov. of year 2 at university and a few opened in August but no one was interested.

It’s not just lemmings at Oxford either. It’s UCL, Warwick, Bristol, Durham, Cambridge et al. There is an endless supply of undergrads wanting this. Sometimes getting away from competing against others and thinking about what you really want is a good idea. I suggest she takes the summer to do this. She doesn’t need to decide what she wants to do in Feb of her first year.

Yes quite Bubbles but the DD is at Oxford where I know for sure that it seems almost a rite of passage to say you're going into City law. It makes absolute sense to do a rain check and ask yourself why.

40 yr old lawyers are not saying don’t do law because it’s hard, they’re saying that because all the benefits that used to apply are going or gone.

There are definitely “City” aspirational students at other universities but not as many I guess. I think though that the ones who want this tend to be friends with those who are like minded and compete with each other and their friends at other universities. However a bit of maturity puts it into perspective!

I worked for 10+ years in a major City lawfirm. It's tough, it's competitive and incredibly hard work. The general consensus was: if you want to get high up the ladder as a female laywer, don't do corporate, but go in-house.
Could your daughter do some pro-bono work whilst at Uni?

That's all very well, but if you want a law qualification it's a darn sight easier if you have a firm who will pay for your training and a salary you can live off. It gives you any number of options a few years down the line. I took the magic circle route to qualification and then switched as soon as I qualified, by which time I had put a deposit down on a flat. It worked for me.