Anyone still waiting to hear from Durham?

[PortusCale]

Just wondered if anyone else is waiting to hear from Durham for an offer for 2019 entry?

See that offer holder day bookings are now open and I understand college allocation has begun.

DS still waiting here, DS application went through in November.....does this mean a rejection will likely be on its way?

The issue is about the doors that those degrees open - in their home countries and elsewhere. The market value of a degree outside its home country is influenced by many factors but it is particularly naive to believe that your degree will be equally prestigious in another country.

I thought that Oxbridge carried weight worldwide?

No! It is highly subject dependent and undergraduate degrees are de facto less prestigious in many countries than masters degrees.

So why do Oxford and Cambridge consistently come out at or near the top of international university rankings, including those that have an element taking account of the opinions of graduate employers?

Surely that can't be right? A Masters from where? I have a Masters degree but I am certain that it carries less weight than a double first in Classics from Oxford?

And Oxbridge degrees with dodgy content (Classics, Philosophy) are not good for anything but teaching

Oh wow, not the case in law at all in my experience so that is really interesting. I suspect that (as in so many ways) we are a few decades behind other industries

Employment prospects outside the country of origin of the degree are very rarely measured, by virtue of the fact that there isn’t sufficient data.

Namechange - law outside the UK?

Bowchica - a double first in Classics from Oxbridge wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on for getting a decent job in many, many countries. A masters in marketing from a former poly would open many doors.

Difficult to say because working outside of the UK yes but I maybe the significant factor is that most of the decisions makers are in based the UK.

A marketing degree from a former poly wouldn't! I can think of more BD people with a degree in philosophy than in marketing! But again, recruited here and work abroad so maybe that's it.

Employment prospects outside the country of origin of the degree are very rarely measured, by virtue of the fact that there isn’t sufficient data

Yes I can imagine that is a problem. There wouldn't be anyone collecting that.

Exactly. However, headhunters, HR etc are a pretty reliable source of information as to what the local market values.

Two observations:

Many of the Europeans DC came across either at school, or in DS' case at University, in London were chose to take quasi-vocational degrees: economics, engineering, etc. I can't think of any who opted to study philosophy or classics, though I am sure there will be some. I assume there is a cultural difference. French students, in particular, appeared to be very career orientated from the get go, with their eyes clearly fixed on the goal of a job in banking. This, I guess, is in part a reflection of the French Grande Ecoles approach where tertiary study is effectively preparing you for a career, and the fact they had chosen to study in the UK in order to advance existing career ambitions.

One of DS' very brightest friends studied philosophy at Oxbridge. His parents were as pleased as punch, something they failed to hide despite the fact that many in the friendship group were rejected by Oxbridge and were headed to Imperial/LSE/UCL. Yet of the group he seems the one who has struggled the most making the transition from University to workplace. No doubt, because of the skills mentioned earlier, he will eventually find his feet, but it does seem so much easier if you have a degree in something like engineering or economics.

Exactly. However, headhunters, HR etc are a pretty reliable source of information as to what the local market values

Well they're the ones making the decisions
I guess. Really interesting the differences.

His parents were as pleased as punch, something they failed to hide despite the fact that many in the friendship group were rejected by Oxbridge and were headed to Imperial/LSE/UCL

Might be the parents more than the degree choice tbf

QS rankings (which rank universities all over the world) use data from 40000 responses from graduate employers around the world. This forms 10% of the final score for the rank. While this is not a guge contribution it would be enough to knock top universities down out of the top spots if they performed badly.
If Oxbridge degrees are so poor why do they have such healthy overseas student numbers?

If Oxbridge degrees are so poor why do they have such healthy overseas student numbers?

Yes, but interesting to see the country/subject distribution. One girl studying science at Oxford claimed a surprising proportion of her peers were from Asia. Yet bar a few Americans, relatively few in the humanities were from overseas.

The willingness of international students to pay for degrees in the UK depends in part on the cost/benefit of similar educational/career paths in their country of origin. French students are quite price elastic for degrees such as Engineering, Economics or Management in the UK, much less so for humanities degrees which are cheap as chips in France and lead to low paying jobs. Incurring £50-£75k of expense for a humanities degree in the UK makes absolutely no economic sense at all

If Oxbridge degrees are so poor why do they have such healthy overseas student numbers?

TBH, the number of overseas students per subject is tiny on a per nationality basis. I met a young recently who had done an English degree at Cambridge, coming from another country/culture. She was an intellectual who went on to do a PhD and have an academic career. She has no intention of going to work at McKinsey.

QS rankings for classics have Oxford at no. 2 and Cambridge at no. 3, (employer rating 100%) behind Sapienza University of Rome (who may have an inbuilt advantage!). Harvard is no. 5. Princeton 6.

Philosophy has Oxford at 4 (employer rating 100%), Cambridge at 7 (employer rating 100%).

I neither studied at or work at Oxbridge, and am usually quite annoyed by their dominance in U.K. university affairs, but they are very highly regarded.

Overall rankings have Oxford at 5 and Cambridge at 6, which given the difference in funding between them and the US universities above them is remarkable. Interestingly Caltech at 4 has a much lower employer reputation than the Oxbridge universities. Oxford is ranked 10th in Graduate Emplyability and Cambridge is 7th.

Sure, chemenger, but the only graduate employment prospects measurable are in the country of the degree almost immediately post-qualification. That has nothing at all to do with long term international employment prospects.

There is little point in saying that engineering and economics degrees have better employability that classics if the student concerned has no aptitude for those subjects. The highest paid graduates in theUK are dentists, but you could not pay me enough to do that.

(I’m also painfully aware I contradicted myself above when I said employability had a big enough kick to affect QS rankings, I had not accounted for Caltech’s particular combination of low student-staff ratio and huge research output).

QS rankings are based on worldwide employer surveys.

I can’t focus this argument until you give me facts to base my responses on Maria. Just telling me I’m wrong doesn’t give me much to go on as far as searching for data goes. Give me your long term employment data to work on. I assume you’re not basing your argument on anecdote.

No, I’m not, though I cannot give you any sources to consult online. Someone I know is doing a PhD in this topic at LSE right now and we have discussed at length the availability or otherwise of data as this is a topic that I regularly confront.

Worldwide surveys of employers doesn’t mean asking eg Bain Paris what they think of graduates of universities in the U.K. or the US anymore than it means asking Bain Boston what it thinks of Belgian universities. The only degree about which the firm has a worldwide opinion is the MBA and then only for eg Insead, HBS and other really international MBAs.