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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

St Andrews or Bristol?

128 replies

Happydaughterhappymum · 05/02/2019 10:31

It’s for History- both offers are AAA.
St A is higher in the league tables but not a Russell group Uni. Bristol is much lower but will it matter in 3 years’ time- they may have swapped positions by then anyway.
DD is vacillating. She has been to both cities but not on an official open day.
Which will employers prefer assuming she gets the same class. Does the MA carry any extra weight.

She keeps asking me my opinion as she can’t decide!

OP posts:
Doyoumind · 05/02/2019 10:36

Honestly, I don't think there would be much in it from an employer's perspective. She should focus on the courses and the locations and what each have to offer her. I feel they would be quite different experiences as a student though I didn't attend either of those universities.

Fazackerley · 05/02/2019 10:51

I would say the unis and cities are almost completely opposite! If this was my dd I would say Bristol would appeal more (bigger city, less Sloaney).

Somethingsmellsnice · 05/02/2019 10:52

DS will be applying next year for history. Having already discounted Durham as too dull he won't even entertain St Andrews. Bristol is very much on his radar as having the city life he desires.

Having worked both in the city and mahor regional centres both will be highly regarded so it will just be a case of how she imagines her student/social life will be.

Needmoresleep · 05/02/2019 10:54

Sits down and reaches for popcorn....

Forget about employers. Where will she be happiest. They are very different Universities. Also which league tables. St Andrews always scores well on student satisfaction so will appear ahead of, say London, on some tables, but not others. It is worth drilling down and seeing where a University rates on things that matter to you. And course content. Say for economics th Bristol course offers a number of maths options, useful for those who might want to go on to further study.

Even coming from London, DD found her first year at Bristol tough. It has a reputation for partying and here is little you can do if you have inconsiderate flatmates/neighbours. (Pastoral care is not great.) The one big advantage is that she was not that far away so she could come home for TLC weekends and we could visit her.

Her second year is completely different. She shares with others who are busy in societies, so not part of the clubbing scene. Bristol itself is beautiful, and it is a big lively city. Bristol is large and outside of societies (and teaching obviously) little happens at the University itself.

My understanding that private accomodation at both can be expensive.

In short I think DD has grown into Bristol. Had she gone to St Andrews, she might well have grown out of it.

To get a feel of Bristol your DD might read The Bristol Tab (or the St Andrews one) or Bristruths on Fb.

Needmoresleep · 05/02/2019 10:56

Faz...Bristol has plenty of Sloaney credentials! But perhaps more London urban, less welly. And it also has lots of more ordinary types, especially from Wales and the West Country

Fazackerley · 05/02/2019 10:58

In short I think DD has grown into Bristol. Had she gone to St Andrews, she might well have grown out of it

this is exactly how I would describe them, at least as far as my own dd is concerned

Toffeeandcoffee · 05/02/2019 11:00

I went to Bristol (Goldney Hall) had a great time. Echo a pp who mentioned non stop partying / drinking culture.
Happy (if hazy!) memories.

wigglybeezer · 05/02/2019 11:14

The History dept at St Andrews is a particularly well regarded dept and has an unusually large range of module choices and degree combinations. DS is in first year studying History and stays in one of the allegedly posh halls, he doesn't find it Sloaney, more diverse and very international and is actually reapplying to stay in halls, which many do( my impression too when dropping him off) He is not a party boy but is out a lot at different clubs and activities, although generally it seems everyone appears to work hard. Can't compare the two as we didn't look at any English Universities.
It is a busy lively place in term time and quiet and relaxing in the holidays so impressions vary hugely depending on when you visit.

ribenita · 05/02/2019 11:16

Hello there, an interesting question, and one answered by my daughter's own experience a few years back.

Firstly, I think St Andrews history are more stringent on what grades are required, that is if she hasn't got the grades already. Bristol might be more lenient depending on the type of school she attends. Something that riled dd was the fact that Scottish AND EU students did not have to pay tuition, whilst she from 200 miles away did. That's a consideration.

In regard to league tables, in hindsight I would not put much on them. Especially when it comes to employment; higher league table position doesn't necessarily translate as better employment prospects. One ought to remember that St Andrews is rather difficult to reach and so if your dd had her eye on a job in the city of London, it would be a pain to get down for interviews. In my opinion, Bristol is just as good as St Andrew's for employment prospects.

I don't think a Scottish MA is really seen as the same as a postgraduate MA. It is much the same to the Oxbridge MA. I was once told that the reason the courses in Scotland are four years is to allow for the Scottish students to catch up, as their secondary education isn't to the same level as A level/IB. How true this is, I don't know; nor do I want to get into the politics of such things.

Next, St Andrews history course is brilliantly flexible , and the system there allows people to mix and match to their interests. However, this does allow for a different degree in the end if say you decide to specialise in mediaeval history and economics. They have a particularly strong mediaeval history department, and on the open day we were very very very impressed by the academics there. The buildings are stunningly quaint.

Bristol buildings in her opinion weren't quite up to scratch in the historic side of things! Of course they do have the oldish buildings too. The history faculty building lecture theatres were quite odd from what she said. Although the staff were friendly, it seemed far more progressive/leftie. The course too was very focused on modern history and in general themes such as colonialism etc which is very fashionable at the moment, but if that is where your daughter's interests lie- brilliant!
St Andrews History seemed more traditional.

People make a university. The ones dd met at St Andrews actually put her off the place as they came across as quite snobbish, but others were very friendly! It seems quite small and close knit. It does have lovely traditions such as gowns too.

Bristol students in general are far more extroverted/big city than those at St Andrews. Bristol has a large clubbing scene. The people dd met were cooler or more urban. She sensed that they were slightly. more mature too. Most 2nd years onwards live in Clifton which is a gorgeous safe area, with lovely large Georgian houses.

In terms of cost, both are expensive. No good university will be cheap. We did hear horror stories of renting in St Andrews, such as 10 hour queues etc.

In the end however, dd took a gap year as she couldn't decide, and now goes somewhere else completely! In hindsight, she says that from visiting friends at Bristol, she'd have gone there as it's much more her and she'd have probably swapped courses. For her, the St Andrews degree was perfect and still a much better fit for her than where and what she currently studies elsewhere but she couldn't see herself sticking four years there. I think she needed a bit of small city after living in the country all her life. Several of her friends are now at St Andrews and several at Bristol, all enjoying!

Tl;DR: If she is more a city person and is sure she loves the course there, go for Bristol, she can't go wrong and will come out with very good grad prospects.
If she is a more small town person, and is not so sure about the Bristol course and has interests outside of modern history, got to St Andrews.

Please ask me any questions at all, willing to ask dd!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 05/02/2019 11:18

I didn't go to uni at either but know both places well and they're apple and pears! I think any young person I know would echo the pp's experience of growing into one and out of another.

I do find SA weird, the way the town is half student posh and half grown up posh, but maybe a student's perspective is different.

I think she has to go to both open days and actually make a two-day visit out of each trip to really get a feel.

ribenita · 05/02/2019 11:21

In short I think DD has grown into Bristol. Had she gone to St Andrews, she might well have grown out of it

Oh yes quite! This is how dd described how in hindsight she's have fitted in at either place

fluffyhamster · 05/02/2019 11:34

What are her other offers? Did she consider York? My friend's daughter chose York over Bristol.

We didn't like Bristol when we visited for DS. The university didn't feel very 'joined up' in either its buildings or its approach to things. DS hated the high rise city accommodation. A friend whose daughter has now left also said pastoral care was severely lacking. Don't know if it's till true.

Xenia · 05/02/2019 11:38

I am biased as had/have chidren at Bristol and we live within the M25. All 3 rejected Durham for Bristol ( and did not apply to St Andrews) in part due to distance and it is much smaller etc and the extra year is a huge thing too for many. I don't think the MA necessarily helps. Articles about where eg trainee solicitors went to who are working in London will show graduates hired from both St A and Bristol for example.

This table www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities is not that helpful because some universities are very large so have a lot of graduates and therefore the bigger ones (as long as they are good ones) are likely to show more people hired than smaller ones likes St A.

Both are good however so if she prefers St A go for that. My son was so sure he would get high A level grades (never at all wise) there was not much to choose between his first choice and his back up and that is not a good plan of course as you need an easier back up choice.

marine04 · 05/02/2019 12:10

My daughter is in her second year at St Andrews doing English Lit and loves it. There's lots of myths about the place most of which are rubbish. We are a very average family on a very average income and she fits right in. If you can access the East Coast mainline (either directly or via London) then train travel is quick and very affordable. She turned down Bristol for St Andrews.
Happy to answer any questions.

fluffyhamster · 05/02/2019 12:52

My friend's daughter chose York over Bristol - sorry, I should have added that this was for History too.

Has your DD looked in detail at the course modules? What's her preference - ancient/ modern/ certain time periods etc.
Somewhere like York is brilliant for Viking/ Anglo-Saxon stuff, which is why she chose it.

BubblesBuddy · 05/02/2019 13:22

The student accommodation in Stoke Bishop for the university of Bristol isn’t remotely high rise! Only the private accommodation in the city centre is like that and most Bristol students avoid it. Cannot speak for UWE students. There is a great student community in Stoke Bishop and the halls near the university in older buildings.

The university is not campus. It’s spread out a bit but it’s hardly inconvenient. You don’t need old buildings to study history in. You need good lecturers.

I have a bit of a suspicion that many grow out of clubbing at Bristol in y2. They get far more into societies that they might have been on the periphery of in y1. Lots of students drink at university but for many it calms down because they grow up. Ditto clubbing! Except for the hardcore! Bristol students tend to live in and around Clifton and adjoining areas in y2 onwards and its a great area with an ambience of its own. DD rarely went into the centre. Life doesn’t revolve around the union, especially if you live at Stoke Bishop in y1. It tends to revolve around friends, making your own social activities and societies. Very many students are happy there and it’s easy to get home if you are SE or SW or London based.

I don’t know St Andrews but a Scottish MA is the same as BA here. It’s not preferred by anyone over a BA. To broaden study at Bristol you can apply to go abroad for a year. There is everything a student could want in Bristol. It has young people from all walks of life and they have a generous contextual offer scheme. However if you don’t qualify don’t expect lower offers for History from there. If you do qualify, great!

Employers will like both universities so I think course and location and student life might be the deciding factors.

ifonly4 · 05/02/2019 15:03

DD is in the same boat, same offers from St Andrews and Birmingham. St Andrews is edging it at the moment, but it's a long long way from home so taking her time. She's still waiting on two others offers, but is more than happy with these.

I can't comment on Bristol. However, we stayed in St Andrews uni accommodation in August, did a talk and walk, admissions talk and spent time with a lecturer.. As said before, admissions told us that if they worked hard and there were spaces, they were able to transfer to another degree at the end of Year 2, so it's very flexable. The lecturer (in DD's subject) was well prepared, had lots of books to show DD, asked her lots of questions and in return DD asked lots of questions - we weren't rushed and had 75 mins with her. From what I can gather St Andrews attracts lots of students from all over the world, so it's a great way of meeting other people and finding out about different nationalities.

If they are in catered accommodation the choice of food is amazing, breakfast choices are easily equivalent to what you'd find in a 5* hotel. Lady from the kitchen told us that the whole uni was a family and everyone including kitchen staff invited to events, Christmas ball etc.

I did wonder if St Andrews for be a bit small and quiet for a teenager, but it didn't put DD off. She thinks it'll suit her better. I understand that life revolves around the many socieities, clubs so worth throwing themselves into whatever is on offer. Dundee is around 30 mins away, so they can go there for a major shop/change of scenery. If they want to go nightclubbing, apparently the uni put on a late bus to bring them back on a Saturday night.

DD received an early offer from St Andrews, but knows of quite a few at her school who are desperate to go there and haven't had offers, so she knows she's lucky to have it for a consideration.

wigglybeezer · 05/02/2019 15:21

Ifonly4, DH is rather jealous of the catering at DS's halls, especially the freshly made waffles on Sunday mornings! I think the breakfast are one of the reasons he's reapplying to halls next year.

SquiddyMcSquidford · 05/02/2019 15:29

I live near S.A. and it's a weird kind of place! Very posh, and very small. I think the university experience there would be very different to that of your typical city uni. But that may suit some.

sollyfromsurrey · 05/02/2019 15:40

For goodness sakes, Russell Group is meaningless. They have done a stellar job in getting people to believe it means something-like an Ivy League but it doesn't. Universities PAY to belong and there are several low ranked RG Uni's, like Queen Mary's and Queens Belfast and several top ranked Unus that are not RG like St Andrews, Bath, Loughborough, Surrey, Reading & Sussex. It's a club. Not a ranking system.

marmiteloversunite · 05/02/2019 15:50

My DD is in her first year at Bristol and she loves it. Her flatmates are quiet and she is in one of the central modern halls which is convenient. A friend's son is at Stoke Bishop which is cheaper but means lots of time on buses. DD could be out every night but she chooses not to be. She tends to go out on society nights but that's it.

Happydaughterhappymum · 05/02/2019 15:52

It's interesting to hear so many differing views, thank you, but nice to know that both unis are good in their own ways. Hopefully she won't be making a bad choice either way as far as her long-term future goes.
I'll show this to DD when she's home from school. She probably won't mind me saying that she's quite quirky, enjoys singing and acting but currently prefers medieval to modern history at the moment- so each uni seems to tick different boxes with no clear winner. She wouldn't consider herself 'posh' by any means, but her school is a good one so didn't qualify for Bristol's contextual offer scheme.

At the moment she seems slightly wooed by the fact St Andrews took the trouble to send a nice little offer pack through the post with a 'choose St Andrew's' brochure and letter whereas Bristol has sent nothing except via e-mail.

Maybe she should visit them on the offer holders' days.

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 05/02/2019 16:45

These universities are VERY far apart geographically!

I had a place at Bristol, having grown up in Glasgow. In the end, it just seemed too far away even though I had no intention of ever going home again

Are you in between these two places?

St Andrews's has a glorious beach (Chariots of Fire!) . It honestly did not used to be as posh as it is now , but it is definitely posh now. I think that must affect the social scene a good deal. I went to a pretty egalitarian uni but it was still dominated at tiems by very well heeled people comparing where they went to school. I can only begin to imagine how that plays out at St Andrew's. But I do like the smallness of it, personally.

Piggywaspushed · 05/02/2019 16:47

And she should visit if she can. Sometimes even the bracing North Sea air is too much for some Sassenachs!

museumum · 05/02/2019 16:56

The four-year system in Scotland is excellent in breadth. It's true that in some subjects Scottish students haven't got the same depth as English A-levels but they do have a broader secondary education and that continues in the first-year of university. Students do three subjects, one of which can be outside your department. I know lots of people ended up with careers in their 'third' subject that they just picked out of pure interest. she can certainly keep her history era options open in a Scottish university or pick up some politics, economics, philosophy, social anthropology.... many other options.

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